required exterior gfci receptacles

[apauling]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

front of lot is not front of house. unless there is a local amendment, houses are not required to "face" the street with their "front" of house. To say that the front of the house faces the street no matter how the house is built is to imply a lack of understanding of simple English, or lack of education, or lack of experience with construction, or an arrogant and hostile disrespect for the job and duties and responsibilities.

I wonder if this same person would drive up the McMansion Dr, knock on the garage wall facing the street and post the red tag for not having a front door, but we all know this is just arrogance as that doesn't happen to influential people with the ear of anybody "downtown".

paul

 

[allenwayne]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

Believe me I have no problem what so ever following any addendums to the NEC,but my gripe is that it was roughed and passed prior to addendum being in affect,IMO it is grand fathered in.But that`s not what`s happening.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

Allen ,we both just gotta except what ever pasco wants.I am having to fight my supervisor on the inuse covers.I would love to figure out just what the nec says and what pasco wants.To me its same amount of work.But i dont like doing it twice.Where do we draw the line ? In a sofit ? front porch 14 feet in ? or just give them a bubble every were

[ August 16, 2005, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]

 

[be4jc]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

Hey Apauling CHILL OUT all I did was give the best discription of front I could Find.
It seems to me you know arrogance & hostile disrespect very well

Also There is no such thing as a front Door it's called an EXIT or sometimes ENTRY DOOR & it does not have to be on the front of the house it only has to meet egress requirements to get you to the front of the house which is on the front of the lot
how is that for simple english

[ August 18, 2005, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: be4jc ]

 

[allenwayne]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

Jim Pasco county isn`t sure what they are doing day to day

 

[jimwalker]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

Well on rough i offered him a p ring inspection plate and he said he liked it.This is the house i talked to you about off bellamy brothers rd.Will be happy to see this job just go away.Bad enough to deal with inspectors that can't make up minds but have a supervisor with very little current residential knowledge.

 

[johnpm]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

Hey guys, I have a similar situation. This is a
two unit duplex. The door of unit one is facing the street. The door of unit two is facing the left side property line. There is only one door per unit. We have a receptacle at the door and rear of unit two. We have a receptacle at the door and right side of unit one. We had to set it at the side because the unit one has no back.
Only one front and two sides. The inspector is requiring us to install another receptacle at the back of the structure. This will be the side of unit two. He also stated, this receptacle should be pulled from unit one through unit two.
I think this would violate 210.25. What do you guys think?

 

[be4jc]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

From note 2002 NEC Handbook: Not only does 210.52 prohibit branch circuits from feeding more than one unit, it also prohibits the sharing of systems, equipment, or common lighting if that equipment is fed from any of the dwelling units. The systems, equipment, or lighting for public or common areas is required to be suplied from a seperate "house load" panelboard.This requirement permits access to the branch circuit disconecting means w/out the need to enter the space of any tenants. The requirement also prevents a tenant from turning off important circuits that may affect other tenants.
So in other words the inspector is not correct.
B.E
Building Inspector II

 

[apauling]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

BE: I am not hostile. you were posting not as a question, but as a rebuttal to the argument. It is an absurd argument (street front is front of house) unfounded in language or code, and it is therefore one of the categories I mentioned. It seems you are still implying what you said you weren't implying.

The "front" is neither a zoning or code defined word. "Front-of-house" is established both in architecture and common usage to mean the main entry to a building. You are confusing "frontage" with "front" and they mean different things. Education does matter where the use of English becomes legalistic. "Frontage" is generally used to mean street frontage. "Front-of-house" means the most presentable face, the one for the public upon approach, and has come to mean entry by usage and by definition.

This is all wasted upon you as you are convinced that your frontage is your face. Man, what a problem!! Do you always back away when facing something?

paul :roll:

 

[iwire]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

Originally posted by apauling:
"Front-of-house" is established both in architecture and common usage to mean the main entry to a building.

And to that I say.

It is an absurd argument unfounded in language or code,

Front of house is in the eye of the beholder.

You do come across as hostile. :roll:

 

[physis]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

By johnpm:
Hey guys, I have a similar situation. This is a
two unit duplex. The door of unit one is facing the street. The door of unit two is facing the left side property line. There is only one door per unit. We have a receptacle at the door and rear of unit two. We have a receptacle at the door and right side of unit one. We had to set it at the side because the unit one has no back.
Only one front and two sides. The inspector is requiring us to install another receptacle at the back of the structure. This will be the side of unit two. He also stated, this receptacle should be pulled from unit one through unit two.
I think this would violate 210.25. What do you guys think?

I don't think there is anything prohibiting the branch circuit wiring for the receptacle for unit 1 at the back of the building from passing through unit 2.

It's not a violation of 210.25 because the brach circuit from unit 1 doesn't supply a load in unit 2.

And 210.52(E) doesn't say anything about what the receptacles are for or how they should be supplied so they can be supply by either their respective units or a house panel.

This is an interesting senario because if you use the street as the front of the dwellings then there would be a pair of outlets required at the front and back. The neighbors might alwasy use the other guys receptacle instead of there own. And I don't see anything in the code addressing this issue because 210.52(E) is silent on what the receptacles are for.

Edit: 210.25 doesn't address it because there is no reason to assume these receptacles are for common areas.

[ August 19, 2005, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[iwire]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

Originally posted by physis:
It's not a violation of 210.25 because the brach circuit from unit 1 doesn't supply a load in unit 2.

It does not have to be load inside the unit, only a load associated with the unit.

210.25 Common Area Branch Circuits.
Branch circuits in dwelling units shall supply only loads within that dwelling unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit. Branch circuits required for the purpose of lighting, central alarm, signal, communications, or other needs for public or common areas of a two-family or multifamily dwelling shall not be supplied from equipment that supplies an individual dwelling unit.

You can't run my neighbors backyard outlet from my panel.

 

[physis]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

The outlet is associated with unit 1 and supplied by unit 1. Kosher.

 

[johnpm]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

I contacted the chief electrical inspector. He agreed with me. Pulling through one to supply another will violate 210.25. The original disagreement was about the definition of front and back. The original inspector stated this was
determined by the structures placement on the lot. The side facing the street is the front. If two sides are facing the street(corner lot), then
both sides can be considered front. The original inspector also considered the structure to be one dwelling. This is why he required one receptacle on the front and one on back.
210.52e clearly states that each unit of a two family dwelling shall have a receptacle at the front and one at the back. Since unit one did not have a "back" we placed the receptacle on the side. The chief inspector eventually agreed that we followed the intent of 210.52.

 

[LarryFine]

Re: required exterior gfci receptacles

Interesting side note: I've seen apartments with shared hallway landings where one two-socket fixture is above a pair of doors, and each unit supplies one socket from an interior switch.

I guess this type of fixture is two luminaires the same way a duplex receptacle is two receptacles.