Required Kitchen Circuits in Rental Remodel Built in the 1930s

Status
Not open for further replies.
jmellc said:
Walk away from this. If something happens, the owner will claim you didn't warn him of the problems, Inspections will be all over you for violations and the licensing board will be calling you. If any injuries, you will be sued. You will not have a leg to stand on.
Click to expand...
Same advice except don't "walk", "run
 

Attachments

  • 1676499607948.png
    1676499607948.png
    35.3 KB · Views: 9
My daughter used to live in Santa Cruz and also worked for a time in Watsonville. The stuff that is hacked up and rented in Santa Cruz is insane.
 
mxlplx00 said:
You mean like a GFCI/AFCI receptacle for $30 instead of a breaker for $80? I never considered that. Sound's kind of cheesy though, wouldn't it be less reliable, more prone to nuisance trips and not last long?

And I just noticed that:
"all 120-volt outlets in kitchens, dining rooms, family rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets hallways, laundry areas or similar rooms and areas shall provide Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter protection"
Doesn't mention bathrooms. How did they forget the bathroom> haha
Click to expand...
Nobody knows their logic in determining those locations. Bathroom was never on the list from the beginning, but laundry and kitchen were added over time. And the very first mentioning of AFCI's in NEC was only for bedrooms, that one made a little more sense, presuming the devices did what the claimed they would do.
 
kwired said:
Nobody knows their logic in determining those locations. Bathroom was never on the list from the beginning, but laundry and kitchen were added over time. And the very first mentioning of AFCI's in NEC was only for bedrooms, that one made a little more sense, presuming the devices did what the claimed they would do.
Click to expand...
I never yet saw an AFCI do as claimed. A useless invention crammed down our throats by greedy manufacturers and overzealous authorities.
 
jmellc said:
I never yet saw an AFCI do as claimed. A useless invention crammed down our throats by greedy manufacturers and overzealous authorities.
Click to expand...
I thought I might have seen my first one more recently, but further investigation showed the failing item developed a ground fault so pretty certain the GFP component was what was tripping on that one.
 
Hi again,
Thanks for all of the very cool conversation.

So I gave the guy my written evaluation of his currently installed system, a critical write-up of Zinsco panels, my proposal for a 70-amp sub-panel with four CAFCI/GFCI breakers (should really be 6 but it I don't touch the laundry or bathroom I'll just strongly suggest it) and my current billing invoice. I told him that I'm sorry but I've been losing sleep over this place and I don't want to do it but there are lots of people that will.

He complained about the six recessed lights I roughed in being incomplete and I said that I'd gladly finish that and change whatever fixtures that he had but wouldn't feel comfortable hooking any new equipment to the existing two circuits. I bid it for material, a few days work but made it clear that labor was only an estimate and would likely take much longer.

So the bad news is that he took it. haha

So now I'm looking at putting a 70-amp breaker in the Zinsco (oh sh*t). Looking at the bus bars there seems to be cobwebs and some buildup or corrosion or something. Should I consider doing something to clean the junk off the bus? I've never felt inclined to try to sand or something like that on a bus. IDK if there's some plating or treatment that I'm taking off. But this looks pretty bad and I worry about a bad contact here.

What you you think, rub it down with some acetone, alcohol or something? Or should I actually take some fine sandpaper to it? I don't think that I should remove the existing breakers because they might crumble away or why get into this any more than I already have.

Thanks Marc
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20230210_140954749_HDR C.jpg
    IMG_20230210_140954749_HDR C.jpg
    1.2 MB · Views: 17
  • IMG_20230210_140954749_HDR D.jpg
    IMG_20230210_140954749_HDR D.jpg
    1,002.2 KB · Views: 17
  • IMG_20230216_175104883 B.jpg
    IMG_20230216_175104883 B.jpg
    915.7 KB · Views: 16
  • IMG_20230216_175204232 B.jpg
    IMG_20230216_175204232 B.jpg
    872.8 KB · Views: 14
  • IMG_20230209_120238249 B.jpg
    IMG_20230209_120238249 B.jpg
    1.2 MB · Views: 15
  • IMG_20230209_120318174.jpg
    IMG_20230209_120318174.jpg
    1.2 MB · Views: 14
  • IMG_20230216_092220006 B.jpg
    IMG_20230216_092220006 B.jpg
    1 MB · Views: 15
  • IMG_20230216_092255459 B.jpg
    IMG_20230216_092255459 B.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 14
mxlplx00 said:
Hi again,
Thanks for all of the very cool conversation.

So I gave the guy my written evaluation of his currently installed system, a critical write-up of Zinsco panels, my proposal for a 70-amp sub-panel with four CAFCI/GFCI breakers (should really be 6 but it I don't touch the laundry or bathroom I'll just strongly suggest it) and my current billing invoice. I told him that I'm sorry but I've been losing sleep over this place and I don't want to do it but there are lots of people that will.

He complained about the six recessed lights I roughed in being incomplete and I said that I'd gladly finish that and change whatever fixtures that he had but wouldn't feel comfortable hooking any new equipment to the existing two circuits. I bid it for material, a few days work but made it clear that labor was only an estimate and would likely take much longer.

So the bad news is that he took it. haha

So now I'm looking at putting a 70-amp breaker in the Zinsco (oh sh*t). Looking at the bus bars there seems to be cobwebs and some buildup or corrosion or something. Should I consider doing something to clean the junk off the bus? I've never felt inclined to try to sand or something like that on a bus. IDK if there's some plating or treatment that I'm taking off. But this looks pretty bad and I worry about a bad contact here.

What you you think, rub it down with some acetone, alcohol or something? Or should I actually take some fine sandpaper to it? I don't think that I should remove the existing breakers because they might crumble away or why get into this any more than I already have.

Thanks Marc
Click to expand...
Get a connecticut electric replacement breaker they're listed and will have the grease for the stabs. That 70 amp breaker won't see more than 40-50 amps of load ever.

That old square d was the original service I'd just turn it into a pull box if they just re fed it but it looks like they might have done that already just might need to put a 2 pole afci on it.
 
How easy is it to find the 70 amp breaker you intend to use, and how much will it cost?

Even if you disregard the AFCI issues I likely would not have wanted to add any breakers to this panel, especially after seeing it, time to retire it.
 
mxlplx00 said:
This guy's doing it:

Looks like he tripped the breaker and became quite startled @ 16:10:
Click to expand...
Not that it can't possibly work, but there is no way approved to clean these in the field. If you have a painter that happens to paint your bus most inspectors will reject anything but replacement or refurbishment by someone approved to do so - which likely will cost more then replacement.
 
Wow, look at about 22:50 where he tries to plug breaker back on bus and it doesn't want to stay plugged on. He just lets it be anyway, that connection isn't going to last very long even if pretty lightly loaded.

I skimmed over about 15 minutes of what looked to be nothing more than him sanding the bus. Whether he was right or wrong to do that - why do these YouTube posters think we like to watch that kind of content?
 
kwired said:
Wow, look at about 22:50 where he tries to plug breaker back on bus and it doesn't want to stay plugged on. He just lets it be anyway, that connection isn't going to last very long even if pretty lightly loaded.

I skimmed over about 15 minutes of what looked to be nothing more than him sanding the bus. Whether he was right or wrong to do that - why do these YouTube posters think we like to watch that kind of content?
Click to expand...
I couldn't watch. Tried to fast forward a time or two then lost interest.
 
My 1943 house had 2 of those SQ D Multibreaker panels installed at one end of the kitchen countertop, which controlled the entire house. There still is a huge installed base of those Zinsco meter mains, decades after they became obsolete, the 200A version of that same panel was a interesting design.
 
ptonsparky said:
I couldn't watch. Tried to fast forward a time or two then lost interest.
Click to expand...
I pulled the time marker forward until it looked like he was doing something besides sanding that top connection or two, I think I skipped over nearly 15 minutes of content that appeared to be nothing but sanding that bus terminal. Then not much later he puts anti-ox compound on the bus and then tries to plug the top right breaker on, it pops right back out, he pushes it on a time or two until (apparently) the load side conductor is trained enough to not make it spring back. Then moved on to working on breakers further down the bus. Those must not been burned as he spent little time on any the others. Even though it probably was a poor connection to begin with, sure looks like he probably made it even worse, that breaker wasn't grabbing the bus at all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top