Required receps per 210.52

Required receps per 210.52

  • Yes

    Votes: 30 44.1%

  • No

    Votes: 38 55.9%
  • Total voters
    68
Status
Not open for further replies.
stickboy1375 said:
A bar is a similar opening?
Click to expand...
Only during happy hour. ;)


It seems one could take the "along the floorline" to mean that, when you start in the corner (or whatever the ends of the 12' sample space are), you measure 4' along the blue wall, hit the orange cabinet, turn, and measure 2' more to the front corner of the cabinet.

Where's the receptacle covering that 6' of floorline? If we follow the 'intent-of'the'law' theory, which to eliminate the need for extension cords, a 6' cord may not reach the counter-top receptacle from the outwide corners/openings/ends-of-the-earth points.

As William pointed out, a single centered receptacle could have been used to cover the counter-top, and would still be within 6', horizontally-speaking, of the edges of the picture. A 6' cord would not reach unless the lamp was level with the counter-top.
 
LarryFine said:
As William pointed out, a single centered receptacle could have been used to cover the counter-top, and would still be within 6', horizontally-speaking, of the edges of the picture. A 6' cord would not reach unless the lamp was level with the counter-top.
Click to expand...

Larry, the required wall receptacles are specifically allowed to be as high as 5 1/2 ft. off floor :)
 
The safety issue was met. There is a receptacle within 6 feet. Nothing says 1 receptacle can not solve more than 1 requirment. Some inspectors might read this differant so get ready for a fight. Let inspectors know your a fighter and most back off rather than have bad day. Would i add receptacle ? Sure if its on the APPROVED PLANS. Care to go there ?
 
I think that some are mixing apples with oranges here.

210.52 has requirements for two different spaces.

(A) General Provisions.
And
(B) Countertops.

I don?t think that you would be allowed to count a countertop receptacle for a wall receptacle.
The picture as drawn would not require a wall receptacle until you reached 6 feet unless the four foot was at the end of the wall in which case a wall receptacle would be required to be installed in that space.
 
jwelectric said:
....I don?t think that you would be allowed to count a countertop receptacle for a wall receptacle.
The picture as drawn would not require a wall receptacle until you reached 6 feet unless the four foot was at the end of the wall in which case a wall receptacle would be required to be installed in that space.
Click to expand...

If you're saying that the c'top recep can't be used to satisfy the 6'-of-wall rule, then the wall would need a recep according to 210,52(A)(2)(1), the 2'-rule.
 
480sparky said:
jwelectric said:
I think that some are mixing apples with oranges here.

210.52 has requirements for two different spaces.

(A) General Provisions.
And
(B) Countertops.

I don’t think that you would be allowed to count a countertop receptacle for a wall receptacle.
The picture as drawn would not require a wall receptacle until you reached 6 feet unless the four foot was at the end of the wall in which case a wall receptacle would be required to be installed in that space.
Click to expand...
If you're saying that the c'top recep can't be used to satisfy the 6'-of-wall rule, then the wall would need a recep according to 210,52(A)(2)(1), the 2'-rule.
Click to expand...

Yep this is exactly what I am saying.

EDITED TO ADD

Any receptacle that falls in the area of 20 inches above to 12 inches below the countertop belongs to the contertop and can not be used to fulfill the wall space of 210.52(A)&(B)
 
Last edited:
jwelectric said:
Yep this is exactly what I am saying.

EDITED TO ADD

Any receptacle that falls in the area of 20 inches above to 12 inches below the countertop belongs to the contertop and can not be used to fulfill the wall space of 210.52(A)&(B)
Click to expand...

Where does it say that it cannot be used to satisfy the wall spacing requirement?
 
Last edited:
stickboy1375 said:
Where does it say that it cannot be used to satisfy the wall spacing requirement?
Click to expand...

Well I suppose that it could be found somewhere in this section

(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

Notice that this section relates to the two places as being different
 
jwelectric said:
Well I suppose that it could be found somewhere in this section

(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

Notice that this section relates to the two places as being different
Click to expand...

I don't that it's there.... that's a requirement that the 2 SABC (C is for circuit) be used in certain areas of a dwelling, not whether a receptacle is required in a certain point.
 
480sparky said:
jwelectric said:
Well I suppose that it could be found somewhere in this section

(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

Notice that this section relates to the two places as being different
Click to expand...
I don't that it's there.... that's a requirement that the 2 SABC (C is for circuit) be used in certain areas of a dwelling, not whether a receptacle is required in a certain point.
Click to expand...

Read it again and keep reading it and it will come to you.

(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A),
all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C),

See this section tells us that the two areas are completly different.
If they wasn't then why mention then as two different areas.

You only have a week left so hurry and sumitt a proposal and the code panel will explain just what is intended.
 
480sparky said:
Here's the situation: 12-foot wall in a dwelling kitchen. 4-foot countertop right in the middle of it. Two receps installed 1' from each end of the c'top. See drawing below.

Question: Are more receptacles required by 210.52 in the light-blue shaded areas?

If possible, explain your response.

Poll2345.jpg
Click to expand...



As I stated earlier in another post, my answer is YES.
Still referencing the same sections as in the other post as well.


In my travels as an inspector, I am somewhat surprised as to how so many installers disregard the wall space requirements in 210.52(A)(2) in regards to kitchen room/space installations.
 
First, is this a spinoff of another thread?

I think receptacles are required in the blue shaded area, because the countertop denotes the end of the wall space. Without opening the book (being lazy tonight) the key phrase that pops to mind is "in each wall space" or something along those lines. My 2? off the top of my head. :)
 
jwelectric said:
Read it again and keep reading it and it will come to you.
Click to expand...

I read it, and it tells me about the circuits and where they are to go, not where receptacles are required.

It does not say the two areas are completely seperate, it simply states they must be served by the 2 SABCs.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top