Required receps per 210.52

Required receps per 210.52

  • Yes

    Votes: 30 44.1%

  • No

    Votes: 38 55.9%
  • Total voters
    68
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480sparky said:
Here's the situation: 12-foot wall in a dwelling kitchen. 4-foot countertop right in the middle of it. Two receps installed 1' from each end of the c'top. See drawing below.

Question: Are more receptacles required by 210.52 in the light-blue shaded areas?

If possible, explain your response.

Poll2345.jpg
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I don't believe the receptacles are required in the blue/green area but I do think you need it within 24'' of the edge of the blue/green. The wall space starts where the cabinet ends. So within 6' of that edge.
 
acrwc10 said:
I don't believe the receptacles are required in the blue/green area but I do think you need it within 24'' of the edge of the blue/green. The wall space starts where the cabinet ends. So within 6' of that edge.
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So is that a yes or a no? I read this as both. First you say you don't need them, then you need them within 2 feet, then 6 feet.
 
480sparky said:
So is that a yes or a no? I read this as both. First you say you don't need them, then you need them within 2 feet, then 6 feet.
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Sorry for the confusion, If the green space was 6' then yes I would say you need them, but since the out side of the picture is undefined who knows whats there, wall, door, receptacle. You would need to see the rest of the wall to say for sure if it needs a receptacle in that space. Just trying to be difficult :D
 
480sparky said:
I read it, and it tells me about the circuits and where they are to go, not where receptacles are required.
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480sparky said:
It does not say the two areas are completely seperate, it simply states they must be served by the 2 SABCs.
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Now it is easy to see why you don?t understand the placement of receptacles, you can?t read. I see the spacing of receptacles in that section through the references made.

(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1)
shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A),
all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C),
and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

For some reason or the other they put 210.52(A), and 210.52(C), in that section. I bet they were put there to read also with this section but then again they might have been added to fill space and no other reason.

I bet if you read the two referenced sections it would be easy to see that the requirements are completely different as they are two different and separate places.
 
jwelectric said:
Now it is easy to see why you don?t understand the placement of receptacles, you can?t read. I see the spacing of receptacles in that section through the references made.

(.
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No need to go there. Sourcasm and mean-spiritedness could drive me away from this thread. I am enjoying the difference of opinion and learning from all the members...all of them....not just you. :smile:
 
jwelectric said:
Now it is easy to see why you don’t understand the placement of receptacles, you can’t read. I see the spacing of receptacles in that section through the references made.
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If it's so obvious, why don't you copy the portion of that section that tells me where to place a receptacle.
 
jwelectric said:
Now it is easy to see why you don?t understand the placement of receptacles, you can?t read.................................I bet if you read the two referenced sections it would be easy to see that the requirements are completely different as they are two different and separate places.
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It must be nice to be so sure of yourself that you can, without hesitation or shame, immediately discount the literacy of your peers in public.

I read all of those references before this thread started, and just read them all again. I get nothing like the certainty that you're so imbued with. And yes, I can read.

Methinks it's time to dust off Charlie's Rule.
 
i vote no

i vote no

210.52 The receptacles required by this section shall be in addition to any receptacle that is: (4) Located more than 5 1/2" above the floor

countertop counts......JMSHO
 
What if there was a floor box within 18" of the wall? That would count as satisfying wall space requirements. Thus why not countertop recepts?
 
ceknight said:
Methinks it's time to dust off Charlie's Rule.
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When I do that, I conclude that the words, as written, do not answer this question. My opinion is that the two countertop receptacles do not count as wall space receptacles, and that two additional receptacles are required (on in each blue shaded area). But I can find no words that clearly support, or contradict, that opinion.

A silly, but equivalent, example would be a room that is nine feet wide, but that includes a doorway near the edge of one of the nine foot wide walls. Let us say there is about four feet of wall space, then there is a three foot wide doorway that is not ?wall space,? leaving about two more feet of wall space before you hit the side wall. Can you put a receptacle in the floor right in the middle of the doorway, and have it count as serving the three feet of wall space to the left of the door and the two feet of wall space to the right of the door? I think that the ?wall space receptacle? should be required to be within the wall space itself. I recognize that the present NEC word do not contain that requirement.

I will submit a proposal to get this clarified.
 
LarryFine said:
It seems one could take the "along the floor line" to mean that, when you start in the corner . . . you measure 4' along the blue wall, hit the orange cabinet, turn, and measure 2' more to the front corner of the cabinet.
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That extra 2 feet is certainly along the floor line, but it is not within the “wall space.” It does not come into play here. A couple weeks ago, I submitted a code change proposal on a related topic. My proposal is intended to clarify that the 25 inches or so of distance from the back of a countertop to the front does not count, when you measure countertop wall space in order to figure out how many receptacles are needed. Specifically, I wish to clearly exclude the space at the side of the countertop.
 
480sparky said:
It would count, but is it required?
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No, but I could choose to wire a whole room with floor boxes if I wanted to and be within the parameters of 210.52. Why would a floor box 18" off the wall count and a countertop/island/peninsula receptacle not count:-?
 
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