required removal

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soly

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We're doing allot of upgrading of old wiring (olde knob an tube , ungrounded nm) some of the wiring is rewiring done in the 60's or so but most of the work left the existing runs, it's hard to know whats hot and whats not. Is there
any section in the code requiring removal of demo-ed wire or is it ok for this stuff to be
left for another 80 years? I thought there was
some thing about removal, it would be nice to be able to justify yanking it instead of leaving it for the next guy .looks better, safer but gotta
justify the time.
 
Re: required removal

If left alone, most of it is OK. The problem is overfusing, insulation, replacing an ungrounded receptacle with a grounded one, etc.

Over the years, a home's wiring system is dynamic and becomes dangerous. K & T, what is wrong with it? It will have insulation blown in around the conductors, it will be improperly tapped to extend the circuit, it has no ground where you need a grounded receptacle, etc. Ungrounded NM, what is wrong with it? It has no ground where you need a grounded receptacle and the insulation will become brittle.

If K & T is not insulated around, over fused, or improperly extended, there is nothing wrong with it and it will work for another 100 years. The problem is that it will be messed with. Basically, the same applies to ungrounded NM where it has been used for kitchen lights or if you need a grounded receptacle somewhere. If NM is left alone and has not been run in the attic or to the kitchen lights, it will be OK as long as it is not disturbed.

Bottom line, replace all you can of both wiring methods and all of the old type AC (BX) cable you find with NMB. :D
 
Re: required removal

There aren't requirements to remove power wiring, but there are requirements for removing unused special systems wiring. You didn't list data cabling, etc., but if you encounter it, there are different rules.
Jim T
 
Re: required removal

Talk about reading through a question, I thought you were asking about replacing old wiring. Duh.
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Re: required removal

I see alot of knob and tube in attics that is in terrible shape. I commonly see entire sections that are bare. :mad:
 
Re: required removal

Bottom line, replace all you can of both wiring methods and all of the old type AC (BX) cable you find with NMB.
Click to expand...
What's wrong with AC (BX) cable in a house? Holds up better than K&T or NM. Rodents can't chew through it.
 
Re: required removal

tkb,

The old "BX" does not contain an internal bonding strip, therefore it has high impedance under fault conditions. The breaker may or may not trip.

I shorted out a piece of that old junk once and the breaker tripped instantly. I was lucky. :eek:
 
Re: required removal

Is BX just Armored Cable that people don't use anytmore?

Speaking of pulling out old wire...is it possible to do it without causing a lot of damage? How?
 
Re: required removal

Originally posted by midget:
Is BX just Armored Cable that people don't use anytmore?
Click to expand...
BX is now a slang term. At one time it was a brand name for AC cable. When electricians say "BX" they may mean "AC" (armor clad) or "MC" (metal clad.) BX is really an improper term, in my opinion.

To answer your question, yes, "BX" generally refers to the old, unbonded cable that is no longer used.

Speaking of pulling out old wire...is it possible to do it without causing a lot of damage? How?
Click to expand...
It depends on many conditions, so that question is impossible to answer. It is case by case. Sometimes it is possible if the old wiring was "snaked in." In that case, you can use the old wiring to pull the new wiring in. Very convenient. :D
 
Re: required removal

Yeah, that is convenient when you can use the existing wire to pull new stuff. Did that the other day. :D
 
Re: required removal

BX (old type AC cable) is like Romex in that they were both brand names. Rome cable picked up the Romex name and is using it again. BX was manufactured in the Bronx, hence the name. The newer AC cable is fine since it has a bonding strip in intimate contact with the metal jacket and it will always carry the fault current. :D
 
Re: required removal

Charlie,

The Romex brand name and product line was purchased from General Cable by Southwire a few years ago.

[ December 17, 2004, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
 
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