Requirements when switches are Wireless

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mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
The difficulty in this statement, for me, is that radio frequency waves are not "stand alone" when considering the OP question about the Lutron Caseta wireless remotes.

The RF signal is used in a switching system . And, very obviously, the switching system is controlling the behavior of utilization equipment connected to a premises wiring (system).

read carefully -- locations for switches required by code are minimal -- all lighting systems have wiring connections to them - Lutron grafic eye, lighhtouch, radio RA -- some have optional remotes you can carry around, I do not believe if a switch location such as top & bottom of stairs is required, a portable switch fills that requirement - by allowing all switching to be portable you are forcing any future owner to adapt to that type of system --

I keep answering your questions but you have not answer for mine -- I just threw out a thought or 2 for confirmation and have not been convinced per code(yet)
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
read carefully -- locations for switches required by code are minimal -- all lighting systems have wiring connections to them - Lutron grafic eye, lighhtouch, radio RA -- some have optional remotes you can carry around, I do not believe if a switch location such as top & bottom of stairs is required, a portable switch fills that requirement - by allowing all switching to be portable you are forcing any future owner to adapt to that type of system --

I keep answering your questions but you have not answer for mine -- I just threw out a thought or 2 for confirmation and have not been convinced per code(yet)

The remote can be screwed to the wall. I think because the code does not define a switch your reasoning is not convincing.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
locations for switches required by code are minimal -- all lighting systems have wiring connections to them - Lutron grafic eye, lighhtouch, radio RA -- some have optional remotes you can carry around, I do not believe if a switch location such as top & bottom of stairs is required, a portable switch fills that requirement
- by allowing all switching to be portable you are forcing any future owner to adapt to that type of system --
I don't think this thread, in any way, is trying to figure out how to make "wall switches" ONLY portable. Rather, its about mounting a wireless switch at a "wall switch" location, . . . they are, in fact, made in versions that are indestinguishable from their wired counterparts.

Look, consider an occupancy sensor used at a wall switch location, the Code doesn't regulate either ultrasonic noise or infrared light, yet there is actual widespread use of occupancy sensors . . .

Are we forcing any future owner to adapt to that type of system?

I keep answering your questions but you have not answer for mine
Show me in the NEC where these battery operated remote switches are -- If the switch is not in the NEC then how can it be used as compliance per the NEC?
Is that your question? It's asked and answered. The Code is silent. Just as it is silent about what a "wall switch" is.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Exception No. 2: Lighting outlets shall be permitted to be controlled by occupancy sensors that are (1) in addition to wall switches or (2) located at a customary wall switch location and equipped with a manual override that will allow the sensor to function as a wall switch.


OC Switches use line voltage no need to adapt can be replaced with conventional switches
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
for what it's worth, folks who can *program* lighting control systems
command $1k per day.... and that is a nationwide rate. you don't even
have to be an electrician, and most of the programmers aren't.

lutron charges $1,500 a day for programming. every day.
it's currently running a three~four week wait time for a programmer.

just a thought......:happyyes:

Tell me more. :happyyes:
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min without traffic from wing
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
Tell me more. :happyyes:

I went to one of their classes and would pursue it some more if energy management systems had more demand my area. You don't need strong computer skills but you need to be literate and have some programming skills. Look up acuity lighting and or n light, they are offering classes all over the country.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
where did that come from???
. Low voltage switching systems cannot have a device replacement with a conventional line voltage switch and switch line voltage.

Occupancy sensors are actuated by sound or light, similar to a wireless remote using RF to actuate the wired control (a control with a mechanical ON /OFF).
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
And wall mounted wireless switches have a permanent position.
Tapatalk
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
There is only an nec requirement for location of a switched outlets, there are no required switch locations.


Dave was thinking of
210.70 Lighting Outlets Required.(2) Additional Locations.(3) Where one or more lighting outlet(s) are installed for interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level, and landing level that includes an entryway,to control the lighting outlet(s) where the stairway between floor levels has six risers or more.
But the exception to stairs deletes my statement -- according to it a single front entry door switch can control every stair lighting outlet in a home & not be on every floor or landing(kind of illogical IMO)

According to what some have implied -- a single remote portable switch can control every light in a residence without any fix wiring outlets to accomidate switches (because you can temp mount it on a wall?) -- don't lose that remote :jawdrop:
 

active1

Senior Member
Location
Las Vegas
Forty some years ago I lived in a home that had a Tennessee 1 wire 3 way (rope pull chain) at the top and bottom of the basement stairs for the pull chain at the bottom. I want to say it was several pull chains in the basement connected together to the same 3 way rope.

One day my brother tried to use the pull chain rope at the top of the stairs to swing down to the concrete floor below..
Think he lost few baby teeth on that one.



Just wondering what about a grounded conductor required at each switch box controlling a lighting load?
Or the switch is required to have an EG 250.4(A)(3)?
 

DaveN

Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Electrical contractor
This thread is over 4 years old and wireless devices have become more common. Does anyone have any more comments on whether a pico remote can be used instead of a wired switch in code mandated switch locations? Let's say, for example, 3 or 4 entrance points of a large open concept residential kitchen that are 12'-15' apart with 1 or 2 of those locations needing to be mounted on the side(s) of full height cabinets without the ability of being wall mounted due to windows, structural framing issues or just no wall area is present. The cabinet side depth would prohibit cutting in a wired switch. Using a Lutron Caseta in one of the wired locations to control a primary lighting source would necessitate that all other switch locations be pico devices with 10 year battery life. These Pico remotes would be mounted inside other wired switchbox locations or surface mounted on the cabinet sides. This is an example, but as electrical professionals, are we obligated to modify the kitchen design to accommodate wired switch locations, or do we go with the project as designed and use the technology available to complete the task? Also, the customer is requiring a smart type switch to control this primary lighting source.
 

synchro

Senior Member
Location
Chicago, IL
Occupation
EE
... Using a Lutron Caseta in one of the wired locations to control a primary lighting source would necessitate that all other switch locations be pico devices with 10 year battery life.
Yes. But there are "companion" Maestro dimmers/switches, and also "remotes" in Lutron's RadioRA 2 RF Maestro product line that are wired to the main dimmer/switch. Both can also use PICO remotes.
 
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