Residential Basement wiring questions

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KnobnTube

KnobnTube

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Wow, great forum, glad I found this one.
Just some background first. I wired homes in the 70's to early 80's and went on to Industrial where I have worked for a company 25yrs, so I have been out of any residential wiring for a long time. My jurisdiction still allows you to get a homeowners permit for electrical (thats how I wired my house 20 yrs. ago).
I want to wire the basement now and turn one room into a TV (big,big screen) room and one room for a pool table room.
Question 1:
Do I have to finish the walls now if I wire the rooms? Reason I ask, it maybe a year or so to finish the walls but want to wire it now. Open wiring OK until then? Will inspector pass it without closed walls? (stud walls already exist, so I wont get a building permit until I finish the walls and ceiling)
Question 2:
Can I use #14 for the wiring? Or is it a requirement for #12?
I couldnt find too many specifics on rooms in NEC besides kitchen, dining etc as for using the 12 NM.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Tom
 
I don't believe that any of the approved wiring methods contained in the NEC require that the wiring be covered by a wall surface. So I think you are OK there.

The minimum size of the wire is driven by the load, and it must be able to be protected by the circuit breaker. So if you keep the load on each circuit small enough to fit on a 15 amp branch circuit, there is no reason you can't use #14. Welcome to the Forum.
 
KnobnTube said:
Will inspector pass it without closed walls? (stud walls already exist, so I wont get a building permit until I finish the walls and ceiling)
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Most jurisdictions require a permit (in NY it's called a building permit) for the installation of a new or extension of an existing electrical sytem. You might want to check that out before starting. :smile:
 
wbalsam1 said:
Most jurisdictions require a permit (in NY it's called a building permit) for the installation of a new or extension of an existing electrical sytem. You might want to check that out before starting. :smile:
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Thanks thus far, anyone else agree?
I am getting a permit. We still have homeowners permits here for electrical if you own the home. It will be inspected and thats the reason to verify my questions. I do want it to pass,lol.
 
unfinished needs Gfci

unfinished needs Gfci

I admire the diy type person. Thats a good point made to check with your city before starting your framing. They might have funny building rules and you would be quite upset to find out you have to rip out the walls you put in because they are say, not pressure treated or a certain vapor barrior used. As far as the electrical, If it's going to be unfinished for a while and you want power down there, branch circuits have to be gfci protected. GFCI's are not required in finished areas but personally I think it's a wise choice unless feeding a fridge. If you dont want gfci thats ok too provided it's ok with local codes and the area is going to be finished(with walls), In that case It cant be final inspected until the area is finished. When you pull your homeowners permit, show them a rough sketch of what you plan to install and where, and the parts and materials you plan on using. Most building inspectors are very helpful when they see you want to do the job right.
The #14 might be fine to serve your loads but #12 isn't that much more expensive and you can have 20a breakers to feed a killer sound system. Good luck.
 
Best thing I can suggest is to have a little pow-wow with the inspector before you start. Let him/her know what you plan to do (ik blueprints aren't available or required for this type of project) and how you want to do it. You can save yourself some headaches that way by knowing what they're going to expect. No one likes 'do-overs' in this type of work.
 
480sparky said:
You can save yourself some headaches that way by knowing what they're going to expect.
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As long as what they "expect" can be found in the pages of the NEC, I don't have a problem with that.
 
14 Gauge????

14 Gauge????

As S'mise pointed out, why bother with 14 gauge. There is some place in 05 NEC that recommends not even using 14 in a home(dwelling) ?? I will have to find it. Anyone know that location?
 
ItsHot said:
As S'mise pointed out, why bother with 14 gauge. There is some place in 05 NEC that recommends not even using 14 in a home(dwelling) ?? I will have to find it. Anyone know that location?
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I'd love to hear about it...tell me more.
 
peter d said:
As long as what they "expect" can be found in the pages of the NEC, I don't have a problem with that.
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There's always local amendment that may come into play, as well as codes for all the other stuff.... framing, egress, firewalls, plumbing, mechanical.....
 
Two different viewpoints here, and I'd disagree with both:smile:
charlie b said:
So if you keep the load on each circuit small enough to fit on a 15 amp branch circuit, there is no reason you can't use #14. Welcome to the Forum.
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True up to a point. There are certain circuits (SABC or "small appliance branch circuits") which must be included in your plan and which must be 20A, regardless of the load. See 210.52(B)...
ItsHot said:
As S'mise pointed out, why bother with 14 gauge.
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For some instances, it's just a waste of copper. Do you need 20A to your furnace? How about the dishwasher? Then again, if this is a one off deal, I can see not wanting to even bother getting a couple hundred feet of #14.
 
480sparky said:
There's always local amendment that may come into play, as well as codes for all the other stuff.... framing, egress, firewalls, plumbing, mechanical.....
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True enough....I was just commenting on the phantom code rules that many inspectors love to enforce.
 
tallguy said:
For some instances, it's just a waste of copper. Do you need 20A to your furnace? How about the dishwasher? Then again, if this is a one off deal, I can see not wanting to even bother getting a couple hundred feet of #14.
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If you don't have a couple of hundred feet of 14 on the truck, you need to re-evaluate your truck stock.
 
If you are a residential electrician and you're not using #14, there's a good chance you only do "blank check" work or you don't know how to be competitive.
 
peter d said:
If you are a residential electrician and you're not using #14, there's a good chance you only do "blank check" work or you don't know how to be competitive.
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OR... it's because you were taught, think, or just believe #12 is way better for some strange reason... :D
 
Help me stick!

Help me stick!

OK maybe it wasn't NEC?? but I read it somewhere??? On the bathroom wall at recodepo? Anyway my point being on down the road at a point in time you will be better off with 12 gauge. Example.. costumer calls for me to install small overhead heater in bathroom/ No go.. 14 gauge wire,heater requires 20 amp circuit. Run your average circular saw 17, 18 amps etc. etc. This is why requirements came in effect in bathrooms and kitchens.Your right Stickboy!!! "thats funny right there"!! I don't care who you are"!
 
ItsHot said:
OK maybe it wasn't NEC?? but I read it somewhere??? On the bathroom wall at recodepo? Anyway my point being on down the road at a point in time you will be better off with 12 gauge. Example.. costumer calls for me to install small overhead heater in bathroom/ No go.. 14 gauge wire,heater requires 20 amp circuit. Run your average circular saw 17, 18 amps etc. etc. This is why requirements came in effect in bathrooms and kitchens.Your right Stickboy!!! "thats funny right there"!! I don't care who you are"!
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My wife generally gets mad when I run the circular saw in the house... :D All i'm saying is any circuit can be overloaded.
 
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ItsHot said:
Run your average circular saw 17, 18 amps etc. etc. This is why requirements came in effect in bathrooms and kitchens.
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I'm probably not going to run a heater or a circular saw on my master bedroom lighting circuit or my little second floor attic air handler circuit. I'm nearly certain of that.

On this 12 vs 14 issue in residential work, I fall someplace in between most guys. I do all my receptacle circuits in 12 gauge. I do my lighting circuits in 14 gauge. I run my dedicated 15 and 20 amp circuits with whatever the equipment requires. When that's unknown, I err with 12 gauge. When it's known, I right size the cable.
 
mdshunk said:
If you don't have a couple of hundred feet of 14 on the truck, you need to re-evaluate your truck stock.
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OP is industrial... works for a company. If he has a truck, the #14 on it doesn't belong to him :smile:
 
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