residential deadend threeway

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greenjourneyman

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Hey team! Is it still legal per 2011 code to do a deadend threeway? Were supposed to have a neutral at switches on commercial and residential now right? Thought that if neutral was in one box and dead end at the other might be okay but maybe EVERY switch box needs them. Thanks in advance
 
Dead-end 3-ways are still legal, even in the 2014. But you still need the neutral there even if you don't use it. The requirement is not a dwelling/commerical one. It applies to ALL switches.

404.2(C) Switches Controlling Lighting Loads.Where switches control lighting loads supplied by a grounded general purpose branch circuit, the grounded circuit conductor for the controlled lighting circuit shall be provided at the switch location.
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Solution: Use 14-4.
 
I believe there are a handful of exceptions to that article that would be important to point out. I dont have the '14 NEC in front of me but I remember from a mike holt video that there are many times in commercial and a time or two in residential that you dont need the neutral.
 
Per 2011 NEC the grounded conductor can be omitted if a raceway is used and there is room to add a grounded conductor at a later date if needed. Also if the framing cavity is accessible from the top or bottom on the same floor level or the device box is accessible from an unfinished side, then you need not worry about the grounded conductor.
 
arcsnsparks98 said:
Yup. Indeed they did. Thats what I meant. :)
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No prob, I will post the exceptions for you.

Exception: The grounded circuit conductor shall be permitted
to be omitted from the switch enclosure where either
of the following conditions in (1) or (2) apply:

(1) Conductors for switches controlling lighting loads enter
the box through a raceway. The raceway shall have
suff?cient cross-sectional area to accommodate the extension
of the grounded circuit conductor of the lighting
circuit to the switch location whether or not the
conductors in the raceway are required to be increased
in size to comply with 310.15(B)(3)(a).

(2) Cable assemblies for switches controlling lighting
loads enter the box through a framing cavity that is
open at the top or bottom on the same floor level, or
through a wall, floor, or ceiling that is unfinished on
one side.
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Since the OP mentioned residential, would it be fair to say that a basement or attic does not qualify as accessible since neither are on the same floor? However, a drop ceiling with removable tiles should be ok.
 
All the exceptions are fine and dandy until the HO or the local handyman does something to create a violation..

I ignore the exceptions when using NM and either don't have deadends or use 14-4. This prevents a lot of headaches in the future.
 
GoldDigger said:
Specifically where the other switch location(s) are placed where an occupancy detector can cover the whole lighted area.
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That may be but I'm pretty sure someone posted something stating that both locations didn't need the neutral, don't remember anything about a OS.

Can you or someone post the article? I don't have the 2014, we're still on the 2008.:roll:
 
Little Bill said:
That may be but I'm pretty sure someone posted something stating that both locations didn't need the neutral, don't remember anything about a OS.

Can you or someone post the article? I don't have the 2014, we're still on the 2008.:roll:
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No neutral needed if...

2014 NEC
404.2 (c) (5) where multiple switch locations control the same lighting load such that the entire floor area of the room or space is visible from the single or combined switch locations

also no need for one if controlling a receptacle load (disposal, etc) or for a non habital room (garage, bathroom, crawl spaces)
 
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2014 language:

(C) Switches Controlling Lighting Loads. The grounded circuit conductor for the controlled lighting circuit shall be provided at the location where switches control lighting loads that are supplied by a grounded general-purpose branch circuit for other than the following:
(1) Where conductors enter the box enclosing the switch through a raceway, provided that the raceway is large enough for all contained conductors, including a
grounded conductor
(2) Where the box enclosing the switch is accessible for the installation of an additional or replacement cable without removing finish materials
(3) Where snap switches with integral enclosures comply with 300.15(E)
(4) Where a switch does not serve a habitable room or bathroom
(5) Where multiple switch locations control the same lighting load such that the entire floor area of the room or space is visible from the single or combined switch locations
(6) Where lighting in the area is controlled by automatic means
(7) Where a switch controls a receptacle load
 
I don't understand how the neutral could be used in the future in a 3 way switch. The reasoning is good is for automatic switches/motion detectors/ timers, correct? How would they get powered with out a constant hot?
 
mjc763 said:
I don't understand how the neutral could be used in the future in a 3 way switch. The reasoning is good is for automatic switches/motion detectors/ timers, correct? How would they get powered with out a constant hot?
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On some electronic low voltages switches the neutral is needed however I do know that Lutron has some devices that do not need a neutral.
 
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