Residential Electrical Permits in Ohio

[jselesk2]

Hello everyone,

Hoping to find some Ohioans on here who can give me some advice...

So, it appears that in order to be able to obtain an electrical permit in 99% of the cities in Ohio, one must be licensed as a commercial electrical contractor with the state, as 99% of the cities require this. It appears that this is the ONLY way to obtain electrical permits in most cities in Ohio. First of all, if anyone has any information citing otherwise, please correct me.

Now, in order to obtain a state commercial electrical license in Ohio, one must spend 5 years working under a licensed electrical contractor, having completed at least 1 job requiring a permit for each of the 5 years in order to be eligible to apply for the state examination that will award a license upon a passing grade.

Now I'm going to vent a little bit... I think this setup it total BS. Why should I have to waste 5 years of my life working as an electrician employee performing menial tasks that I already know how to do in order to be able to do residential electrical work? Why in the world isn't there an alternative path set up to allow people who already have the knowledge and skill to be able to work as an independent electrical contractor? To me this seems absurd. Does anyone know of an alternative way?

 

[MyCleveland]

Welcome from across town, or maybe down the street.
Not an EC, just a guy that throws plans at you and say build it. You must of gained your experience working under a licensed shop...no. Doesn't all that time apply towards your 5 years ? With that under your belt, could you approach a licensed shop and work under their umbrella ?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Most states require a certain number of hours to get a license. NC requires about 4,000 (2 years) to get a limited license. How can you get experience as a worker if you are working for yourself without a license (in most states that is illegal and you can get fined or more).

The only way the state can be assured you know what you are doing is to have you work for someone. Granted there are people who are book smart and can pass an exam but honestly that would not be the type of person I would want working on my house. There are all kinds of tricks and methods that one learns working with someone.

Granted not all contractors are worth working for but how else can the state be assured you have the experience-- working illegally is not the way to expect a handout. I have no idea if that is what you have done but I am trying to show you that there is a reason for the requirement.

In NC we have different levels of licensing each requiring a different level of experience. I have my unlimited by I have rarely worked in commercial settings. I did as a kid with my dad but that was the brunt of it.

We have limited, intermediate as well as unlimted but we also have licenses for wiring well pumps, single family dwellings, etc. Perhaps Ohio should try a residential or a limited type of license

 

[growler]

Why should I have to waste 5 years of my life working as an electrician employee performing menial tasks that I already know how to do in order to be able to do residential electrical work?

It's not really a waste of time. You can often make more money working as an electrician for a bigger company than you can as a small time EC.

As an employee you don't always perform menial task. I ran much bigger jobs as an employee than I have ever done on my own. You can gain some very valuable experience while someone else is paying for it.

I don't know how old you are or experience level or anything like that but here is how it works. The very minute you get your license you are glad that it's not all that easy, if it was then everyone would have one and there is already enough competition.

 

[kwired]

Residential work has been more difficult to keep up with code changes the past 20 years or so then other types of work.

 

[jselesk2]

Most states require a certain number of hours to get a license. NC requires about 4,000 (2 years) to get a limited license. How can you get experience as a worker if you are working for yourself without a license (in most states that is illegal and you can get fined or more).

The only way the state can be assured you know what you are doing is to have you work for someone. Granted there are people who are book smart and can pass an exam but honestly that would not be the type of person I would want working on my house. There are all kinds of tricks and methods that one learns working with someone.

Granted not all contractors are worth working for but how else can the state be assured you have the experience-- working illegally is not the way to expect a handout. I have no idea if that is what you have done but I am trying to show you that there is a reason for the requirement.

In NC we have different levels of licensing each requiring a different level of experience. I have my unlimited by I have rarely worked in commercial settings. I did as a kid with my dad but that was the brunt of it.

We have limited, intermediate as well as unlimted but we also have licenses for wiring well pumps, single family dwellings, etc. Perhaps Ohio should try a residential or a limited type of license

This is my opinion, but I believe the only thing the state should really care about is whether or not you possess the knowledge to install electrical systems safely and correctly - and that is it. Working under a licensed contractor for 5 years does not necessarily mean you know all of the code and are able to install safe and reliable electrical systems. I know plenty of guys that worked under a relative's license for years but still don't have a firm grasp on the code or electricity in general. The "tips and tricks" of the trade that I may or may not posses as an electrician should not be of any concern to the state. As far as my experience goes, I worked under a licensed electrical contractor for about a year then left. I felt I wasn't learning fast enough and I knew I could learn much faster on my own time. My superior who worked with me didn't even know how a GFI receptacle operated although he's been an electrician for 15 years. I was making $13.50 an hour. Why should I have to endure that for years when I am confident in my skills now? I think it's an absurd requirement probably conspired by the state's large electrical contractors to limit competition.

 

[jselesk2]

It's not really a waste of time. You can often make more money working as an electrician for a bigger company than you can as a small time EC.

Not true in my experience. I worked as an electrician employee making $13.50 an hour

As an employee you don't always perform menial task. I ran much bigger jobs as an employee than I have ever done on my own. You can gain some very valuable experience while someone else is paying for it.

Yes, I did learn some valuable things as an employee, but I felt that it was nothing I couldn't teach myself.

The very minute you get your license you are glad that it's not all that easy, if it was then everyone would have one and there is already enough competition.

I disagree. There is so much more to standing out and being a successful electrical contractor than merely possessing a license. If I were already a licensed electrician, the ease of which someone would be able to obtain a license wouldn't bother me at all.

 

[jselesk2]

Welcome from across town, or maybe down the street.
Not an EC, just a guy that throws plans at you and say build it. You must of gained your experience working under a licensed shop...no. Doesn't all that time apply towards your 5 years ? With that under your belt, could you approach a licensed shop and work under their umbrella ?

Yes I could, but I would be taking a significant pay cut.

 

[mopowr steve]

I’m not completly sure if something has changed recently but let me take a stab at it.

As far as I know you should only need 4 years of apprentice training (which is often provided by any electrical contractor who is enrolled with various union or non-union training entities. For example I was enrolled with ABC (associated builders and contractors) and have provided on the job training hours while the training agency provides the classroom hours. Cost handling can vary whether you pick up all costs or employer shares in costs.)

After which you have completed the 4000 hours you are eligible to take the states contractor electrical exam to become licensed.

Now the thing you may find is that finding contractors who have had to go thru this same process may be few and far in between because many electrical contractors (myself included) were grand-fathered in when this whole process was implemented about 15-18 years ago.
Needless to say I don’t think there are many guys out there that have gone through the hoops to start a contracting business due to this, now leaving us with a shortage of licensed contractors/skilled electrical trades people along with the fact it’s hard to find skilled workers period.

Most of my work is in a couple of those 1% of cities which do not have residential inspections but still due my best to police myself with the code.
As far as many of the municipalities around me that do have inspections, with a state electrical license I can submit it to obtain a local regions AHJ registration and fee (if required) to do work in their area. (Ex. Ottawa county, Wood county, Toledo, etc) in order to obtain permits/inspections.

Hello everyone,

Hoping to find some Ohioans on here who can give me some advice...

So, it appears that in order to be able to obtain an electrical permit in 99% of the cities in Ohio, one must be licensed as a commercial electrical contractor with the state, as 99% of the cities require this. It appears that this is the ONLY way to obtain electrical permits in most cities in Ohio. First of all, if anyone has any information citing otherwise, please correct me.

Now, in order to obtain a state commercial electrical license in Ohio, one must spend 5 years working under a licensed electrical contractor, having completed at least 1 job requiring a permit for each of the 5 years in order to be eligible to apply for the state examination that will award a license upon a passing grade.

Now I'm going to vent a little bit... I think this setup it total BS. Why should I have to waste 5 years of my life working as an electrician employee performing menial tasks that I already know how to do in order to be able to do residential electrical work? Why in the world isn't there an alternative path set up to allow people who already have the knowledge and skill to be able to work as an independent electrical contractor? To me this seems absurd. Does anyone know of an alternative way?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I was making $13.50 an hour. Why should I have to endure that for years when I am confident in my skills now? I think it's an absurd requirement probably conspired by the state's large electrical contractors to limit competition.

I hear you but I can only assume that you have been working illegally all these years and now you want the state to accept that you have a firm grasp of the code and have all that experience behind you. In fact you would have to admit you broke the law. For some reason, the state thinks 5 years experience is necessary.

I have no reason to not believe that you are totally competent and I agree that many workers can be in the field for 20 years and not understand the code or be capable of passing the exam.

As I see it, you want special treatment for yourself because you know your abilities and are confident. But, you did, if I correct in assuming, break the law and in many states that may prevent you from getting a license.

Not sure how you can make your case to the board without first changing the rules. I am going to guess that will not happen.

The issue here is that you may be in the upper 2% of the bell curve and laws can't be made for those few who are gifted, so to speak.

If you don't work within the system then you will probably have to continue with what you are doing because I am doubtful the board will make an exception.

Passing the test isn't everything as I have seen guys pass the test with less than a year experience - somehow their boss lied for them terms of hours, but he had no idea of how to run a job. I used to get calls all the time from him. He finally persued another field. I am not saying that is you but this is why the board whats verified field experience, IMO. Imagine going to a guy who passed the MCAP's but had no medical experience. Not the same
but you get my drift

 

[growler]

I worked under a licensed electrical contractor for about a year then left. I felt I wasn't learning fast enough and I knew I could learn much faster on my own time.

How much experience do you have? Any military or classes taken ?

When you say that you can learn faster on your on time how do you accomplish this?

If you are really good you should be able to convince and employer to pay you more than $13.50 an hour.

 

[kwired]

This is my opinion, but I believe the only thing the state should really care about is whether or not you possess the knowledge to install electrical systems safely and correctly - and that is it. Working under a licensed contractor for 5 years does not necessarily mean you know all of the code and are able to install safe and reliable electrical systems. I know plenty of guys that worked under a relative's license for years but still don't have a firm grasp on the code or electricity in general. The "tips and tricks" of the trade that I may or may not posses as an electrician should not be of any concern to the state. As far as my experience goes, I worked under a licensed electrical contractor for about a year then left. I felt I wasn't learning fast enough and I knew I could learn much faster on my own time. My superior who worked with me didn't even know how a GFI receptacle operated although he's been an electrician for 15 years. I was making $13.50 an hour. Why should I have to endure that for years when I am confident in my skills now? I think it's an absurd requirement probably conspired by the state's large electrical contractors to limit competition.

Most places have fairly similar requirements - you are not going to just get a license without verification of experience they require to attain said license. Most places you need to attain a journeymen license before you are eligible to attain any higher licensing. Have you even gotten to that level?

How much experience do you have? Any military or classes taken ?

When you say that you can learn faster on your on time how do you accomplish this?

If you are really good you should be able to convince and employer to pay you more than $13.50 an hour.

Or find someone that will pay you more. Like I questioned before - has OP even attained a journeyman license? Might be a big help if one wants to be paid journeyman wages.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Boy I tell you the OP thinks that Someone is going to just Hand him a license because he is book smart. That is not going to happen unless you falsely state your qualifications.

You need boots on the ground experience. Its not about knowing how to look up a code in a book.
That means how to wire a home competently, Know the minimum code requirements as well as what is a upgrade.
Proper drilling and notching.
Proper box setting and size of conductor fill.
proper size of conductors.
For commercial you need to know how to bend pipe, pulling wire, mounting panels, stuff that is not in the book and the only way to learn is in the field working for someone else. If one company is not doing it for you then go to another. Find a contractor willing to train you and be glad he is willing to do so.
You want to shortcut. There is no way you shortcut training in the field.
I despise those like you because they are always causing trouble when I have to bid against them as workers like you over look items or just don't understand what it takes to do the work.
Otherwise you could be overdoing and over charging. or providing unsafe electrical.


I will tell you this , with your tude you are probably difficult to employ.

Drop the Tude and follow the program or move to more relaxed state or find another trade.

 

[JFletcher]

Welcome to The Forum

You may be exceptionally intelligent, a fast learner, intuitively know how to do things that others take years to learn, however you still have to go through the same process as everyone else.

I got my Virginia class 1 Wastewater license when I was 25, and I finished four year apprenticeship program 4 days after September 11th. Not only was I valedictorian of my class, to date I still have the highest GPA of anyone to ever graduate that program. That and a buck-fifty will get me a cup of coffee, and I still like everyone else, have to spend five years under a licensed electrician. The rules are designed for everyone, and it doesn't matter where on the bell curve you fall... even if you're the one who breaks the bell curve...

The first four years I was into electrical, I work for a low voltage contractor. He knew all the codes, how to do it, but was not license, so guess what? None of that time counted. When I found out, to say that I was unhappy with a serious understatement.

Setbacks are a part of life. How you deal with them is up to you

I understand the original posters mentality, I was probably once a lot like he was. Reviews like everyone else, even doing menial things... A lot of electrical work is really really trivial, boring, repetitive stuff, but it's not like you're going to get design electrical system for a particle accelerator or for a Mars space station... Maybe you will maybe you will be that guy. until then, you will be digging trenches, putting on wire nuts, installing Romex, drilling holes, Etc all the stuff that is rote to us all. If it was all fun, interesting, or exciting, it wouldn't be work, would it?

If you really hate the process that much, and think it is unfair, you have two choices... You can do something else or get in a position to change it.

 

[growler]

Why in the world isn't there an alternative path set up to allow people who already have the knowledge and skill to be able to work as an independent electrical contractor? To me this seems absurd. Does anyone know of an alternative way?

There is an alternative path to becoming an electrical contractor. You can start an electrical business and hire a licensed master electrician to sponsor your company.

 

[Andy Delle]

Is this DIY?

Is this DIY?

The reason I ask is most localities allow the home owner to do electrical or most any construction work within their own residence. I heard some in localities you must pass a basic test but any homeowner should be able to pull their own permits. After all the work is inspected.

Now pulling a permit to help your neighbor or a friend is generally over the line because then you are acting as a contractor.

But are there actually localities where owner residential DIY electrical work is not allowed? I would think that could be challenged in court.

 

[Sierrasparky]

The reason I ask is most localities allow the home owner to do electrical or most any construction work within their own residence. I heard some in localities you must pass a basic test but any homeowner should be able to pull their own permits. After all the work is inspected.

Now pulling a permit to help your neighbor or a friend is generally over the line because then you are acting as a contractor.

But are there actually localities where owner residential DIY electrical work is not allowed? I would think that could be challenged in court.

The OP is not a DIY, he is a unlicensed contractor wishing to obtain his own permits. Unfortunately Ohio only allows a licensed contractor to obtain permits for work other than his own property.

 

[Andy Delle]

The OP is not a DIY, he is a unlicensed contractor wishing to obtain his own permits. Unfortunately Ohio only allows a licensed contractor to obtain permits for work other than his own property.

That makes sense. Does any AHJ allow a non licensed contractor to pull permits outside of owner residential?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

That makes sense. Does any AHJ allow a non licensed contractor to pull permits outside of owner residential?

Non Licensed contractor cannot get permits unless it is their home

 

[JFletcher]

Non Licensed contractor cannot get permits unless it is their home

not that I want to encourage the original poster or anyone else to continue a path of lawlessness, but this is absolutely not true. The aforementioned gentleman I work for when I was doing low voltage work was a licensed contractor, but not a licensed electrician. Yet somehow he managed to pull permits on 18 commercial hotel jobs in a four-year span. As far as I know he's still in business. But that's doing communication work for the owner, and the owner may have pulled the permits for the hotels.

I've said before that inspectors do not pay much attention to chapter 8 installs. I got more scrutiny from a local inspector building a 3 by 6 deck on the front of my aunts house then I did in all of those 18 commercial jobs put together.

If the op wants to do a job that requires a permit, he will have to go one of the ways I said or start his own company and hire a licensed electrician... Or be relegated to what many here would call hack work or trunk slamming.