Residential Electrical System Aging Research Project

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Guinness

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Hello Everyone

I attended a presentation regarding the Residential Electrical System Aging Research Project that UL has performed. I thought the research was very interesting. Here is a link to the presentation created by Dave Dini (Sr. Research Engineer at UL) from NFPA's website.

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/Proceedings/Dini_presentation_-_RESA_Project.pdf

(Please note the file is ~7mb since it contains a lot of pictures)

Enjoy!
 
weressl said:
If you don't know what to do with yourself, just ask your wife.:D
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What wife? ;)

(Eagerly waiting for a smart aleck comment from Marc or Erik. Or Marc can post "Peedah needs a hug" again. ;) )
 
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Dennis Alwon said:
You just took all the fun from Ken. He'll have to find something else to do this week. :grin:
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Trust me... it's already in the works! :smile:

What I find interesting about this 'study' is the title is about aging of electrical systems. They seem to zero in on poor workmanship and installations. Two totally different animals.
 
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480sparky said:
Trust me... it's already in the works! :smile:

What I find interesting about this 'study' is the title is about aging of electrical systems. They seem to zero in on poor workmanship and installations. Two totally different animals.
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What is interesting that there were so many potential hazards, yet NONE materialized in a catastrophy as far as we can tell.

It seems to me that;
1. The construction was older then what they claimed.
2. Was NEC enforceable in the area? The house may have been built in that rural area entirely without ANY codes or oversight.
3. I don't think - or hope - that an electrician was involved here at all.
 
The picture with the overlamped fixture reminds me of one I took down years ago. It was on a porch with bead board ceiling. There was, lterally, ashes around the jb. I don't know how it didn't ignite. The ho wanted to reuse the fixture. :)

Of course, I told her no way.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The picture with the overlamped fixture reminds me of one I took down years ago. It was on a porch with bead board ceiling. There was, lterally, ashes around the jb. I don't know how it didn't ignite. The ho wanted to reuse the fixture. :)

Of course, I told her no way.
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I strenously object to calling the homeowners ho.

Not all of them are.........:D
 
weressl said:
What is interesting that there were so many potential hazards, yet NONE materialized in a catastrophy as far as we can tell.
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I would be far more interested in a study of an older installation that was 1. properly installed in the first place and 2. properly maintained by qualified personel.
 
480sparky said:
Trust me... it's already in the works! :smile:

What I find interesting about this 'study' is the title is about aging of electrical systems. They seem to zero in on poor workmanship and installations. Two totally different animals.
Click to expand...

I was seeing the same thing. You could have taken those pics in a house that was built last week and the concerns would have been the same.

I've been in some of those older house where you take down the light fixture and all of the insulation falls off of the wires. I would have expected to see more of that in the pictures.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I was seeing the same thing. You could have taken those pics in a house that was built last week and the concerns would have been the same.

I've been in some of those older house where you take down the light fixture and all of the insulation falls off of the wires. I would have expected to see more of that in the pictures.
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I was just there!

HO had a 500 watt de-humidifier, a 40 watt fluorescent and a 75 watt bulb in a socketed edison base extension that was rated for 250 watts max. It caused the switch in the keyed base to get so hot it started smoking. The wiring was BX from probably the 30s or so. At the ends where there was the most heat the insulation practically turned into dust.

I see this all the time. Whatever it was they used as insulation on BX cable did not age like fine wine. Yeah, it made it 70 years or so but the way it fails is downright dangerous. I will bet that in another 20 years or so we will see many fires due to the rest of the insulation falling off.

Edit: On a positive note the jacket on the BX cable was still in good shape and provided a very good (I tested it) ground back to the panel.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I was seeing the same thing. You could have taken those pics in a house that was built last week and the concerns would have been the same.

I've been in some of those older house where you take down the light fixture and all of the insulation falls off of the wires. I would have expected to see more of that in the pictures.
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Just a thought.... even if everything taken out of a house appears to be correct and up to code, there would be no way to know the true history of the installation from the beginning.

It's quire possible the Smith's had the house built, and Joe Sparky put 60watt bulbs in the fixture as per the instructions. Then the Smiths thought the bulbs were too dim, so they replaced them with 100s. This resulted in the damage to the wires.

But years later, the Smiths sold the house to the Jones's, who had an electrician come in and correct all the problems, replacing the 100w bulbs with 60s being one of them.

Now, along comes a team of 'Champions' in thier quest for a soon-to-be-demolished home, who find a light fixture marked '60-watt maximum', and lo and behold, there's 60-watt bulbs in them. How do they quantify the insulation damage without knowing the truth?
 
480sparky said:
What I find interesting about this 'study' is the title is about aging of electrical systems. They seem to zero in on poor workmanship and installations. Two totally different animals.
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Right. Thanks for pointing that out. I've seen plenty of old wiring methods that were in top notch shape.
 
480sparky said:
Just a thought.... even if everything taken out of a house appears to be correct and up to code, there would be no way to know the true history of the installation from the beginning.

It's quire possible the Smith's had the house built, and Joe Sparky put 60watt bulbs in the fixture as per the instructions. Then the Smiths thought the bulbs were too dim, so they replaced them with 100s. This resulted in the damage to the wires.

But years later, the Smiths sold the house to the Jones's, who had an electrician come in and correct all the problems, replacing the 100w bulbs with 60s being one of them.

Now, along comes a team of 'Champions' in thier quest for a soon-to-be-demolished home, who find a light fixture marked '60-watt maximum', and lo and behold, there's 60-watt bulbs in them. How do they quantify the insulation damage without knowing the truth?
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Very good thought, kind of like buying a used car.

Here in CA we changed many codes after the last big earthquake, now the only way we'll know if they work is to have another big earthquake, but even after the last one we had some newer houses that had sever damage and yet a house from the 1940's, with one of the few basements in town, was virturally undamaged.

We would have houses right next door to each other with the chimmneys right next to each other and one would have bricks blown out of it and the other wouldn't even have a crack. The best we could come up with was one was put up on monday and the other was put up on Tuesday or the wind was blowing when one was put up or to much sand was put in the mix, who knows why it failed or didn't fail.

It would be interesting if you could do a test like they are doing for the grounding, just build a house and let it sit, turn the lights on and off at regular intervals, you could test all sorts of things, life of plumbing fixtures, siding, roof material, etc.
 
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