Residential estimating

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guitarchris

Senior Member
Location
Central North Carolina
I'm doing an bid for a 4800 sq ft house with about 2400 unfinished basement that will be finished later. I'm making my own take off type setup in excel and have several questions. Do any of you guys have a list of the time typical task should take? and do I price my labor at my normal rate which is 75/hr? My break even for billing 6 hrs a day is right at 70/hr.
I'm going to include what I have so far. The times I have are rough guesses so fee free to critique. keep in mind that this sheet is unfinished.

[edit: couldn't attach the file, said invalid file]
thanks in advance.
 
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Mule

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
guitarchris said:
I'm doing an bid for a 4800 sq ft house with about 2400 unfinished basement that will be finished later. I'm making my own take off type setup in excel and have several questions. Do any of you guys have a list of the time typical task should take? and do I price my labor at my normal rate which is 75/hr? My break even for billing 6 hrs a day is right at 70/hr.
I'm going to include what I have so far. The times I have are rough guesses so fee free to critique. keep in mind that this sheet is unfinished.
thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I have a 2007 Ecost data book that I got on ebay for $25....I really like it, because I can navigate quicker for those labor task than I can on software. This book shows a lot of resi task such as your asking about.

as for your rate....I think it would depend on your backlog as well as your competitions backlog as to your boldness in rate pricing....my break even rate is about the same as yours for 6 billable hours...however I find myself quoting jobs with 8 billable hours lower during these uncertain times. I figure if Im slow, and I can work for 8hrs for 6hrs pay and never know the difference, except Im more tired at night...:smile:, Im doing good, but its a practice I dont plan on continueing unless Im forced to.
 
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guitarchris

Senior Member
Location
Central North Carolina
I also generally bill at an 8 hour rate if it's a job I know I will be at all day or have 8 billable hours per day for. This job will be an 8 hour (more most days) day.
We generally do time and material so having to "bid" a job is new to me. I did an estimate for a 5k ft house last year. I estimated it at around $17K They added some and called us out for many 1-2 hour task (like when the temp well feed was damaged,etc). After the last draw I gave them another estimate of what the job is going to cost and it's closer to 25K. Now that's 17K priced by the print and 25K w/ extras at T&M. But I feel like I shorted the original estimate. I'm going to eventually take that job and see how it breaks down and use it for future estimating.
 
Mule

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
guitarchris said:
I also generally bill at an 8 hour rate if it's a job I know I will be at all day or have 8 billable hours per day for. This job will be an 8 hour (more most days) day.
We generally do time and material so having to "bid" a job is new to me. I did an estimate for a 5k ft house last year. I estimated it at around $17K They added some and called us out for many 1-2 hour task (like when the temp well feed was damaged,etc). After the last draw I gave them another estimate of what the job is going to cost and it's closer to 25K. Now that's 17K priced by the print and 25K w/ extras at T&M. But I feel like I shorted the original estimate. I'm going to eventually take that job and see how it breaks down and use it for future estimating.
Click to expand...

If you were confident in the man/hrs you obviously would not be asking....so just be carefull....
 
celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
You can get labor hours here: http://www.get-a-quote.net/QuoteEngine/costbook.asp?WCI=CostFrameSet&BookId=9&Pattern=Wiring

...for free....but a colassal PITA to navigate.

An easier option might be The National Electrical Estimator [TNE]:
512MF2JK55L._SL500_AA240_.jpg


The 2008 Edition is under $40 [book and CD]at Amazon
The 2009 Edition is about $60 [book and CD] or $30 [download ONLY] at CraftsmanBooks

Again, this is not a perfect system to navigate and updating for current material pricing is the most valued asset ~ which is downloadable monthly.

I had a copy of the "Home Depot Pro CD" that was free at the time [same EXACT product as TNE] ~ daily material cost downloads available....BUT, I don't think you will find it anywhere - I haven't seen it anywhere in years.

You could spend a great deal of time making an Excel spreadsheet to streamline the estimate process, as I have done:
d60e40fa.jpg


Take-off4.jpg



...or you could spend some real bucks on a product like TurboBid.



Here is a link you might consder eyeballing:
THINGS TO CONSIDER BEFORE PURCHASING ANY ESTIMATING SOFTWARE
 
celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
electricguy said:
For a Copy of the HD CD try asking Rick @ Craftsman
rick"at"costbook.com
Click to expand...
This has been mentioned before...to my knowledge, no one has ever recieved a copy of the software.

When was the last time you were aware of a positive result?
 
celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
guitarchris said:
Anyone know how acurate to your own real work/time the man hours are?
Click to expand...

YOU will work faster than anyone you hire :smile:

IMHO, the numbers are accurate - but you MUST allow for everything invovled in doing a particular task.
Here is an example:
15AStandardDuplexRecp.jpg


This is an "assembly" for a typical 15A duplex recept.
It includes all the components to make this "assemby" from wire to plate.
Little things add up....like staples and wirenuts.
The total labor is .66 of 1 hour [ 30 - 45 minutes]

Like I said....you could get a product like TNE or the HD Pro CD - but your work is not done simply because the program shows an outlet at:
.## manhours
There is more invovled.


Some products, like TurboBid, have these assemblies "pre-built" for you ~ and of course you are free to edit them.
My version of TNE is from '94 or '96...I don't know if they have "pre-built" assemblies included or not.


Most - if not all - estimating programs give an "average time for an average wireman working under 'good' conditions".
 
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guitarchris

Senior Member
Location
Central North Carolina
celtic said:
YOU will work faster than anyone you hire :smile:
Click to expand...

Man O Man, how right you are! I hired a helper about 6 months ago and he has one speed....and it aint fast.He is VERY green. I constantly ride the fine line between pushing him harder to move faster and letting hime take his time to ensure it's right (and tight).
 
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celtic

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
guitarchris said:
[edit: couldn't attach the file, said invalid file]
Click to expand...


Just copy and paste the text...or enter your numbers. ie:
17 - 15A recepts.
21 - 4" recessed cans
3 - 20A SABC
1 - 15A ref. circuit

etc.

Tell us what your man hours are....and I'll post mine :)
 
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guitarchris

Senior Member
Location
Central North Carolina
Service: 400 A meter panel combo 1
200A inside panel 42 circuit 2
Generator hook up 1
100A or less subpanel 1
Heat:Inside 60A 2
Heat: Outside Heat pump 30A 2
6" Can Light,trim and Bulb 31
Paddle Fan & light switched separate 7
4' Florecent Wrap 4 tube,bulbs 15
2' Florecent strip,bulbs 3
Undercabinet Light,xenon 18
Hanging light, no fixture 18
Dimmer 37
sconce,no fixture 3
4 way switch 1
3 way switch 30
switch single pole 50
duplex receptacle 82
single circuit receptacle 120V
Range (standard) 1
water heater 30A 0 =Gas
Dryer 30A 1
Separate ovens 1
Dishwasher 1
Disposal 1
Refrigerator 2
small appliance recs (kit 7 butlers pantry). 15
Island receptacle cut into cabinet 2
Microwave (single circuit) 1
range hood 1
Bath Fan, panosonic 7
Shower Can,trim,bulb 1
Bathroom Sconce 8
Bathroom Receptacle 16
Flood light 1
Outside Receptacle 5
Outside sconce,BRICK 6
Outside sconce,siding 0
smoke detector 8
Single pole Breaker 31
Double pole Breaker 30A or less 3
Double pole Breaker Over 30A 3
Arc fault Single pole Breaker 9
doorbell system (frt &bk) 1
garage receptacle 8
Whirlpool tub w/ heat 1
 
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