Residential fire alarm

[Jesse7623]

I am installing a fire alarm system in a huge house where I am going to have 23 smoke det. appliances.I am going to install a Low Voltage system.But I am trying to find a panel and appliances that will work on only one zone as req. by NFPA.Does anyone have any advice for a system this large?

 

[RICK NAPIER]

Where is it required to be on one zone.

 

[Jesse7623]

It is my understanding that the UL listing only allows one rrs-mod in the FACP.This may have changed recently.Anyways my question is pretty stupid now that I have reconsidered the whole thing.Because I can put as many System sensor 2WTAB det. on one zone as my battery can support.

 

[nhfire77]

.Because I can put as many System sensor 2WTAB det. on one zone as my battery can support.

Hold up there.....In general that is wrong.

The panel manufacturer limit's the number of smokes on single circuit, typically it is by the model number of the smoke. This is especially true with 2 wire over 4wire smokes.

Most firelite/silent knight limit to about 20 smokes, see your install manual for the exact number.

Be careful with 23 smokes, check resistance on the circuit as well. There is a limit to resistance on the circuit sometimes as well (not including the EOLR)


The RSS-MOD being limited to one per panel? I doubt that. Obviously one per circuit.

I would really try to use more than one zone, for survivability reasons, troubleshooting reasons and notifcation. The owner/fire department could use a better idea of smoke in the house, say smoke on the X floor or X wing. It is the best way to go. Besides are you really looking to use a single zone FACP?

If you are using a burg panel that allows for one 2 wire smoke Fire rated zone, go with 4 wire smokes, If this is a resi retrofit and wiring is a problem, go wireless!!! There is a lot to consider and it can be easily executed, but you gotta plan a little.

ALSO, Your current on a two wire circuit will be limited. The A series system sensor smokes with the sounder draw a bit more than the non-sounder, check that out!!!

 

[nhfire77]

I stand corrected Silent Knights conventional 5208 limits 25 2-wb's to 25, but does not allow the A type with sounders. Firelite is probably similar.

 

[ron]

I'm not sure if it was an oddity hear in NY of years ago, but after installation of a low voltage smoke detection system in a home (with battery backup in the control panel), the local Electrical Inspector required installation of line voltage detectors connected to the local lighting circuit in addition.
Be sure low voltage is acceptable in lieu of line voltage in your area.

 

[gadfly56]

I'm not sure if it was an oddity hear in NY of years ago, but after installation of a low voltage smoke detection system in a home (with battery backup in the control panel), the local Electrical Inspector required installation of line voltage detectors connected to the local lighting circuit in addition.
Be sure low voltage is acceptable in lieu of line voltage in your area.

Far from being an oddity, this is exactly the situation in New Jersey. You MUST have the interconnected 110V detectors. If you'd like a full blown fire alarm panel too, knock yourself out. You CANNOT substitute a low voltage system for the 110V system unless you get a variance from the local fire official, and he's only supposed to grant said variance if you absolutely cannot get the proper coverage with the 110V devices.

In New Jersey, it's not hard to find homes that could easily exceed the 12 smoke alarm limit for unsupervised interconnection. You could go up to 42 smoke alarms if the interconnection was supervised, but I don't know of anyone who offers this.

 

[n1hampton]

Agressable system

Agressable system

If you go with an adressable system most of your problems are corrected. If class A wiring is a must it gets hard. Most residential in my state does not require Class A. A DSC 4020 panel can cover this. Distance is around 2000' per adressable run and a total of well over 100 devices. Some wireless smokes can be used but not all are UL listed for industrial use. Ademco supports the same technology as well as DMP. This will also give you more flexability on finding the point that is in alarm. All of these panel are NFPA approved and UL listed.

Hope I helped.

 

[gadfly56]

Zones

Zones

By the way, if you do put in a full-fledged low voltage system, each floor will need to be on a separate zone for notification. Also, if you use conventional initiating devices and your jurisdiction follows the IBC or some variant thereof, each floor will need a separate zone for alarm initiating devices.

 

[jwjrw]

We have to have all the 120v smokes here but an alarm company can moniter them. If we do even a kitchen remodel we now have to make sure all smokes are there and tied together. If you have to tear the house up to do it they let you slide with ind 120 smokes.

 

[ty]

Nowhere in the Building Code does it say the smokes have to be 120v.

It says hardwired, interconnected, battery back-up. All of which criteria the far superior fire alarm type meet.
And in any case, the low volt type are fed from a 120v source which is stepped down.

People get so used to seeing the 120v ones because, hello, They're cheaper.

 

[jwjrw]

Nowhere in the Building Code does it say the smokes have to be 120v.

It says hardwired, interconnected, battery back-up. All of which criteria the far superior fire alarm type meet.
And in any case, the low volt type are fed from a 120v source which is stepped down.

People get so used to seeing the 120v ones because, hello, They're cheaper.

Our building code does say it and our elec inspectors look for it on a final for the building dept.

 

[raider1]

Our building code does say it and our elec inspectors look for it on a final for the building dept.

Here is what the 2009 IRC says with regards to smoke alarms for SFD's.

R314.2 Smoke detection systems. Household fire alarm systems
installed in accordance with NFPA 72 that include smoke
alarms, or a combination of smoke detector and audible notification
device installed as required by this section for smoke
alarms, shall be permitted. The household fire alarm system
shall provide the same level of smoke detection and alarm as
required by this section for smoke alarms. Where a household
fire warning system is installed using a combination of smoke
detector and audible notification device(s), it shall become a
permanent fixture of the occupancy and owned by the homeowner.
The system shall be monitored by an approved supervising
station and be maintained in accordance withNFPA72.

Now I am not sure if your area adopts the IRC or not.

Chris

 

[jwjrw]

I have no idea either and then I read your point about 120. I need to ask that myself. I do know we did a room add they had alarm smokes in hall. Would not let them add one to room made me put 120v in. Im going to look into that wouldnt be the first time the code was misinterperted.

 

[ty]

Our building code does say it and our elec inspectors look for it on a final for the building dept.

What building Code? it must be a Local Building Code. It is NOT the IRC.
And I would hope that it is in writing.

The Electrical Inspector should only Inspect them if they are there. Building Codes aren't for him to worry about policing. That's what the Building Inspector is for.

 

[gadfly56]

Nowhere in the Building Code does it say the smokes have to be 120v.

It says hardwired, interconnected, battery back-up. All of which criteria the far superior fire alarm type meet.
And in any case, the low volt type are fed from a 120v source which is stepped down.

People get so used to seeing the 120v ones because, hello, They're cheaper.

OK, where exactly on "The 3rd Rock" do you reside? New Jersey's flavor of the IBC says if you rip the fire alarm panel off the wall, your "hardwired, interconnected, battery back-up" smoke detectors must continue to function [907.2.10].

 

[jwjrw]

What building Code? it must be a Local Building Code. It is NOT the IRC.
And I would hope that it is in writing.

The Electrical Inspector should only Inspect them if they are there. Building Codes aren't for him to worry about policing. That's what the Building Inspector is for.

Welcome to Meck county! They have layed off about 40 inspectors and not all the ones left are multi inspectors. I do know you get a building permit for remodels and you are required to bring smokes to current code as long as you dont have to damage to do so. The inspector did show it to me in writing but I thought it was not a local code.

 

[GCW]

Res. Fire

Res. Fire

I am not sure about your local codes but I see no reason when you need a Firelite or Silent Knight panel here. A burg/fire combo will work just fine. You will need to heed the advice mentioned prior about device counts. Be sure you have enough power to run them all and a back up batt that is correct.