Residential Jacuzzi Tub Failure

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WA_Sparky

WA_Sparky

Electrical Engineer
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Vancouver, WA, Clark
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Electrical Engineer
Just to clarify this is not a post seeking assistance on a DIY project. Any work that may be done will be performed by a licensed electrician, I just cannot wrap my head around identifying the problem.

So my Jacuzzi went out a couple weeks ago. Whenever i press the on button nothing works. Checked the breaker, wasnt tripped. Flipped off and on just to check. Still doesnt make a sound or anything when i press the button. Checked power at the jacuzzi simplex receptacle and theres no power...

Is it more likely that the simplex receptacle burned up or the breaker is malfunctioning in the "on" position?

If it helps, leading up the "no power" event it did seem like the pump was humming for a few seconds prior to turning on. Could that be a sign leading up to the issue? Possibly a locked rotor state that caused high current. Breaker is 20A/1 wire is #12, wondering if receptacle internal components got destroyed before the breaker tripped? Or possibly, but less likely, the original EC installed a 15A simplex on a 20A circuit.

Thanks in advance
 
This simplex receptacle, it has GFCI protection? A 15-amp GFCI can burn up on a 20-amp circuit. I've seen that several times if there's a short. Even a 20-amp GFCI can burn up that way - the GFCI will initially trip on overcurrent, but if you try to reset it when the load is shorted, it'll burn it out.
 
Mr. Serious said:
This simplex receptacle, it has GFCI protection? A 15-amp GFCI can burn up on a 20-amp circuit. I've seen that several times if there's a short. Even a 20-amp GFCI can burn up that way - the GFCI will initially trip on overcurrent, but if you try to reset it when the load is shorted, it'll burn it out.
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GFCI's do not trip on over current.
 
Just saying what I've seen. I know they don't advertise an overcurrent trip feature, but I believe I have seen it happen multiple times.
 
Mr. Serious said:
Just saying what I've seen. I know they don't advertise an overcurrent trip feature, but I believe I have seen it happen multiple times.
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I highly doubt you have seen a GFCI receptacle trip on overcurrent. You may have seen one trip from lightning, surge, etc. There is no overcurrent protection in them. They could also burn out from overheating over a long period of time, just like any receptacle.
 
220209-0742 EST

WA Sparky:

Even if you do not have a voltmeter you could probably get enough information using a light bulb.

.
 
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WA_Sparky said:
Just to clarify this is not a post seeking assistance on a DIY project. Any work that may be done will be performed by a licensed electrician, I just cannot wrap my head around identifying the problem.

So my Jacuzzi went out a couple weeks ago. Whenever i press the on button nothing works. Checked the breaker, wasnt tripped. Flipped off and on just to check. Still doesnt make a sound or anything when i press the button. Checked power at the jacuzzi simplex receptacle and theres no power...

Is it more likely that the simplex receptacle burned up or the breaker is malfunctioning in the "on" position?

If it helps, leading up the "no power" event it did seem like the pump was humming for a few seconds prior to turning on. Could that be a sign leading up to the issue? Possibly a locked rotor state that caused high current. Breaker is 20A/1 wire is #12, wondering if receptacle internal components got destroyed before the breaker tripped? Or possibly, but less likely, the original EC installed a 15A simplex on a 20A circuit.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
That right there tells me something has failed anywhere between the bus connection of the breaker and the receptacle, or even the grounded (neutral) conductor could have failed likely any point from panel bus to receptacle.

There should be GFCI protection somewhere if it was installed properly, you indicated it is not a GFCI receptacle if it is not a GFCI breaker then there could be some GFCI device elsewhere that is possibly tripped.
 
kwired said:
That right there tells me something has failed anywhere between the bus connection of the breaker and the receptacle, or even the grounded (neutral) conductor could have failed likely any point from panel bus to receptacle.

There should be GFCI protection somewhere if it was installed properly, you indicated it is not a GFCI receptacle if it is not a GFCI breaker then there could be some GFCI device elsewhere that is possibly tripped.
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Yeah thats pretty much what ive concluded as well. Breaker or receptacle. I doubt it's the wire or there'd be more serious issues going on.

It appears to be the only device on the circuit. All other GFI outlets are on different circuits and are working as expected. I don't know where else there could be GFI protection.
 

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There is a device, often called a "dead front GFCI" that is essentially a GFCI receptacle, without the actual receptacle holes. They are used in situations like this because GFCI receptacles are always duplex, and you can't have a duplex for something like this. Also, this would not likely qualify as 'accessible" for required periodic testing of GFCIs. So look for something that looks like this on a nearby wall or maybe in a closet, garage etc.:
s-l1600.jpg
 
Jraef said:
There is a device, often called a "dead front GFCI" that is essentially a GFCI receptacle, without the actual receptacle holes. They are used in situations like this because GFCI receptacles are always duplex, and you can't have a duplex for something like this. Also, this would not likely qualify as 'accessible" for required periodic testing of GFCIs. So look for something that looks like this on a nearby wall or maybe in a closet, garage etc.:
View attachment 2559362
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I cant believe I've never seen one of these before.. I'll double check and see if I can find something. From what I remember there is no device like this in the entire house. I recently modeled my house in Revit along with every device in it minus the crawl space.

My house is on a sloped hill. The garage being level 1, there is a crawl space door 6' off the ground in the garage. You can stand up in the space but no stairs lead up to the door. It would be mind blowing if they considered the crawl space "accessible" and not the access panel where the receptacle feeding the jacuzzi is located. Also that would mean the dead front GFI protecting the second floor jacuzzi tub was two floors below the equipment it served.
 
I used to install the dead front switch in the bathroom somewhere out of the way. Usually above the main switches for lights and fans.

The breaker can very well be in the on position and not putting out voltage. You would have to open the panel cover...

If you pushed the breaker button and nothing happens then you need a new breaker.
 
Just for grins get a drop cord and plug the tub into it and plug the other in to a outlet that is good and see if it works. At least eliminate the tub.
But I do think you have a GFI receptacle that is tripped somewhere
 
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