Residential LED installs, client concerns

Residential LED installs, client concerns

  • Dimming - does not dim smoothly across entire range

    Votes: 7 36.8%

  • Dimming - does not turn on at lowest setting

    Votes: 6 31.6%

  • Dimming - shimmer, flicker, and such despite using proper dimmer

    Votes: 10 52.6%

  • Dimming - excess ballast buzz when dimmed

    Votes: 6 31.6%

  • Dimming - color doesn't mimic incandescent closely enough

    Votes: 3 15.8%

  • Buzzing ballast - without dimming

    Votes: 1 5.3%

  • Light color uneven between fixtures

    Votes: 1 5.3%

  • Just don't like the color

    Votes: 6 31.6%

  • something else

    Votes: 4 21.1%

  • NEVER had LED complaints

    Votes: 4 21.1%
  • Total voters
    19
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Electric-Light

Electric-Light

Senior Member
Have you had call backs about them?
What is your most common callbacks involving LED installs?

It is my understanding that most residential LED work complications stems from some form of dissatisfaction related to dimming. I am trying to get a better understanding of it what you guys run into and welcome your comments.

Running some tests with random products, I can not say that they fail to conform to specifications but I am coming across products with what I personally feel is excess noise from the ballast when dimmed using proper dimming controls.
 
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I don't have any customer call back complaints but I picked Dimming - does not turn on at lowest setting even though that it was not exactly true.

I put some dimmable LEDs in at my own house and the only thing I don't like about them is the dim-ability at the low end. I only care a little to nothing about how dim they are when I turn them on, I care a lot about how low I can dim them down and the current crop goes dead before I get them as dim as I like.
 
ActionDave said:
I don't have any customer call back complaints but I picked Dimming - does not turn on at lowest setting even though that it was not exactly true.

I put some dimmable LEDs in at my own house and the only thing I don't like about them is the dim-ability at the low end. I only care a little to nothing about how dim they are when I turn them on, I care a lot about how low I can dim them down and the current crop goes dead before I get them as dim as I like.
Click to expand...

Me too.
 
Preset dimmer is meant to let you turn the light off, then back on at the last used setting. Even using a Lutron C-L dimmer, I have observed some dimmable LED products fail to power up at all from the last state.

It requires raising up far enough to make it turn on and dimming back down to preserve deep dimming or block off deep dimming by raising trim adjustments high enough where it will start reliably each time at 114v input voltage with the slider all the way at the bottom or you risk "it doesn't turn on with the switch" complaint and may experience a blow out from routine minor surge or noise from appliances or switching off motor loads. Some dimmable LEDs are very sensitive to surge and malfunction even when not using a dimmer switch. The original CREE bulb with fins along the bottom and glass globe actually shuts off and turns back on from surge created from shutting off a fan.

I am also reporting that I do not experience this problem with two wire dimmable T8 ballast using a dimmer made for this purpose. It starts up fine even at the lowest setting. Every time. Just as LEDs essentially require LED rated dimmer to be able to use the entire slider movement range.
 
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The only dimming problem I had was a mismatch between fixture and dimmer brand. It was for my personal use and didn't need the dimmer anyway so I returned it. We don't do a lot of residential let alone dimming LEDs in them. Occasional call back for early failure but we replace immediately. One outdoor fixture failed about two years into a five year warranty. Supplier replaced it. Overall I have been very happy with the products we deal with.

(The dimmer system we used in a school gym was and is great. Works well past my expectations)
 
ptonsparky said:
(The dimmer system we used in a school gym was and is great. Works well past my expectations)
Click to expand...

Dimming systems that use control wire(s) have always been stable. The vast majority dimming difficulties are in residential installs due to the continuing use of in-line dimming. This type of dimming is not used in a large scale for commercial system, because it causes a lot of harmonics and has a poor PF.

Dimming by a means of external control improves dimming stability, avoids power quality issues or increase in ballast buzz.
 
ActionDave said:
I don't have any customer call back complaints but I picked Dimming - does not turn on at lowest setting even though that it was not exactly true.

I put some dimmable LEDs in at my own house and the only thing I don't like about them is the dim-ability at the low end. I only care a little to nothing about how dim they are when I turn them on, I care a lot about how low I can dim them down and the current crop goes dead before I get them as dim as I like.
Click to expand...

so, you have a problem with being a dim bulb in your own house? hmmmm....

truth is, unless you are running 0-10 V. dimming controls, i've never seen any
that will fire at the lowest level they are capable of sustaining without flickering.

i shoulda bought 0-10's for my own house. a dim bulb in my own house as well.
 
Dimmers...... always.

I use mostly the Lutron my supplier carries. So far it seems to be solved by using at least a 3.0 date code model.

I've had zero callbacks on residential LED trims failing over the last 2-3 years.

I would guess we've installed 2-3k LED recessed trims in commercial installs over the last 5 years, and I can think of only a handful of times one has failed. Typically if they're bad, it will fail out of the box.

I've had more problems out of the Cree lay-in fixtures than recessed (which really isn't that much) and even more so out of the outdoor LED facade lighting and wallpacks; likely due to moisture.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Those of you which marked " didn't like the color " what K temp did you install and did the customer want something that resembles incandescent?

I prefer 2700K for much of my work although I do get a few people that think 4-5 K is brighter.
Bah-hum-bug. As far as residential goes. Still commercial I like 3500-4000 K
 
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I've always figured it was issues around dimming and the results so far points in that direction and compatibility looks to be the sore spot. So much that Lutron felt it was necessary to withdraw warranty on their dimmers when they're used with a lamp that is not approved by them.


"Warranty on your Lutron 100 W C•L dimmer or 150 W C•L dimmer or 250 W C•L dimmer will be void if
used with bulbs that are not on this Lutron compatible bulb list. " -Lutron Electronics
https://www.lutron.com/technicaldocumentlibrary/3682066_cfl_led_bulb_list.pdf
 
Electric-Light said:
I've always figured it was issues around dimming and the results so far points in that direction and compatibility looks to be the sore spot. So much that Lutron felt it was necessary to withdraw warranty on their dimmers when they're used with a lamp that is not approved by them.


"Warranty on your Lutron 100 W C•L dimmer or 150 W C•L dimmer or 250 W C•L dimmer will be void if
used with bulbs that are not on this Lutron compatible bulb list. " -Lutron Electronics
https://www.lutron.com/technicaldocumentlibrary/3682066_cfl_led_bulb_list.pdf
Click to expand...

What happened to idiot proofing?
Come on people, do you really expect joe-blow homeowner to really understand this crap. Just like I'm sure every homeowner tests their GFCI's.

It should be the smarty pants to make things work together across the board. And keep in mind what would they expect their grandmother to do, or ask what would Jesus do!
 
mopowr steve said:
Those of you which marked " didn't like the color " what K temp did you install and did the customer want something that resembles incandescent?

I prefer 2700K for much of my work although I do get a few people that think 4-5 K is brighter.
Bah-hum-bug. As far as residential goes. Still commercial I like 3500-4000 K
Click to expand...

I have always advocated Spec35 (3500K) linear fluorescents as a good balance between yellow and blue extremes.
I have not had much luck finding 3500K in LEDs though.
 
mopowr steve said:
Those of you which marked " didn't like the color " what K temp did you install and did the customer want something that resembles incandescent?

I prefer 2700K for much of my work although I do get a few people that think 4-5 K is brighter.
Bah-hum-bug. As far as residential goes. Still commercial I like 3500-4000 K
Click to expand...

All bets are off when you dim them. It does look quite unnatural when you dim down 2700 or 3000K and it just fades down without turning redder.
 
mopowr steve said:
What happened to idiot proofing?
Come on people, do you really expect joe-blow homeowner to really understand this crap. Just like I'm sure every homeowner tests their GFCI's.

It should be the smarty pants to make things work together across the board. And keep in mind what would they expect their grandmother to do, or ask what would Jesus do!
Click to expand...

They might be able to idiot proof it but that would also raise the cost, ECs would not buy it .....
 
mopowr steve said:
Those of you which marked " didn't like the color " what K temp did you install and did the customer want something that resembles incandescent?

I prefer 2700K for much of my work although I do get a few people that think 4-5 K is brighter.
Bah-hum-bug. As far as residential goes. Still commercial I like 3500-4000 K
Click to expand...

I marked color. 2700K-3000K is what we usually go with in residential. Commercial I prefer 4000... maybe it's the wall colors work better with it? 2700 and 3500K in those settings looks pretty hideous.

Never had a single complaint from pindots on countertops from UC LEDs, but I've learned most HOs when they say they want it bright or white do not mean they want their living room lit up like a gas station. Yes, they want a more incandescent type color from LEDs.
 
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