residential outlets

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roger3829 said:
sminor said:
is there a code section that specifies light circuts and receptacle circuts must be seperate?
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Only in kitchens
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Only in kitchens [210.11(C)(1)]
Laundry [210.11(C)(2)]
+ Bathrooms [210.11(C)(3)]
altho with bathrooms there is an exception that can be followed to combine lights and plugs but isolate the room [210.11(C)(1)x]
 
dnem said:
Only in kitchens [210.11(C)(1)]
Laundry [210.11(C)(2)]
+ Bathrooms [210.11(C)(3)]
altho with bathrooms there is an exception that can be followed to combine lights and plugs but isolate the room [210.11(C)(1)x]
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Sorry, I forgot about the laundry...... I try to stay away from that part of the house.....:)
 
local rules may apply, be sure to check. Like in Tulsa. You can't put lighting and recepts on the same branch circuit here.
 
Isn't this forum for everyone??? Really seems like inspectors really need to be careful what they say around here. Why the sarcasm for just asking a question???

sminor said:
so would that mean you could put all bedroom outlets on one arc-fault, lights smoke and receptacles?
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I would be a little leary if I saw one arc-fault breaker in a house. As a rule of thumb, I use 3VA per square ft. for general lighting load. 120v times 15a is 1800VA divided by 3VA is 600 sq ft. Shouldn't see more than 600 sq. ft. on a 15a breaker. Most of the time there is hallways, closets & bath lighting on the bedroom circuit. Unless it is a small house there should be more than one AFCI.
 
mistermudd said:
Really seems like inspectors really need to be careful what they say around here. Why the sarcasm for just asking a question???
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My perception of the sarcasm is that the average, everyday electrician who busts his hump on a day-to-day basis and tries his darnedest to be knowledgable of the NEC and tries to put in a code compliant installation has at least a reasonable expectation that if the "sr. inspector" comes to inspect his work, said sr. inspector should at least be "almost" an expert in the National Electrical Code provisions that he is entrusted to enforce.
 
I for one APPLAUD an inspector that asks any question here to expand his/her ability to do there job better. I run into many combo inspectors that are very strong in one area and not so well versed in another. There is far to many things to know about building to jump on a person for asking an honest and reasonable question. :)
 
acrwc10 said:
I for one APPLAUD an inspector that asks any question here to expand his/her ability to do there job better. I run into many combo inspectors that are very strong in one area and not so well versed in another. There is far to many things to know about building to jump on a person for asking an honest and reasonable question. :)
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Thank you Crossman. Acrwc, I don't want this to get too far off topic, but the profile does say SENIOR ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR. Not combo quasi whatever... everybody has questions and nobody knows it all, but in the pyramid of questions, that one wasn't even in Egypt.

As for finding one arc fault breaker... if the code cycle is still bedroooms only, and the bedrooms all shared one circuit, and the livingroom and den each had only one or two receptacles on their own 15a circuits, then the design, however poor, would be in compliance.
 
I would be a little leary if I saw one arc-fault breaker in a house. As a rule of thumb, I use 3VA per square ft. for general lighting load. 120v times 15a is 1800VA divided by 3VA is 600 sq ft. Shouldn't see more than 600 sq. ft. on a 15a breaker. Most of the time there is hallways, closets & bath lighting on the bedroom circuit. Unless it is a small house there should be more than one AFCI.[/QUOTE]


4 bedrooms, 5 receptacles in each bedroom, (no lights) plus smokes on 1 AFCI. Not a big deal. The rest of the house on regular breakers.

Not the way I would do it but it would meet the code requirements.
 
roger3829 said:
I would be a little leary if I saw one arc-fault breaker in a house. As a rule of thumb, I use 3VA per square ft. for general lighting load. 120v times 15a is 1800VA divided by 3VA is 600 sq ft. Shouldn't see more than 600 sq. ft. on a 15a breaker. Most of the time there is hallways, closets & bath lighting on the bedroom circuit. Unless it is a small house there should be more than one AFCI.
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4 bedrooms, 5 receptacles in each bedroom, (no lights) plus smokes on 1 AFCI. Not a big deal. The rest of the house on regular breakers.

Not the way I would do it but it would meet the code requirements.[/QUOTE]

It will damage his name when the breaker trips and cant really be fixed.That at best is 5 amps per room.I do see why some would try this on track homes.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Why don't you tell US, Mr. Senior electrical inspector?
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I agree that it's strange that someone in that position would ask such a basic question. . Maybe there's more to this question than we're assuming. . I hadn't read sminors profile yet, but now that I have, I'm now assuming that the question isn't a basic residential question.

I'll bet he's talking commercial.

sminor said:
is there a code section that specifies light circuts and receptacle circuts must be seperate?
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For commercial, no
Commercial is according to the Engineers [or the Architect, if your state law allows] design. . Generally speaking, the NEC backs off on many requirements for commercial jobs. . The light/plug separate of 210.11(C) doesn't apply. . The 2' plug spacing of 210.52(A)(2)(1) doesn't apply. . The 6'/12' plug spacing of 210.52(A)(1) doesn't apply. . The 1'/2'/4' counter plug spacing of 210.52(C)(1) doesn't apply.

For commercial properties, that kind of stuff is driven by specific application. . You build the commercial building to the specific requirements of usage and if there's a change of occupancy/business, you have to remodel or make do with what you have.

For residential, the house is supposed to be built to be free from extension cords for the original occupant and all other future occupants without needing to be remodeled. . It's also assumed that, for a given square footage, whether you install 100 plugs or 1000 plugs, the load will be about the same. . You don't buy stuff until you run out of plugs. . You buy stuff until you have what you need/want.

But for commercial, if the Engineer does put lighting on the same circuit as plugs, they don't get the "No additional calculations shall be required for ....." [220.14(J)] the plugs. . They have to add the specific load for each plug or add 180va [220.14(L)]. . So after you subtract the lighting load from 20 amps, how many more amp and a half plugs do you have room for before you max out at 20 amps ?

David
 
roger3829 said:
4 bedrooms, 5 receptacles in each bedroom, (no lights) plus smokes on 1 AFCI. Not a big deal. The rest of the house on regular breakers.

Not the way I would do it but it would meet the code requirements.
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"4 bedrooms, 5 receptacles in each bedroom, (no lights) plus smokes on 1 AFCI"
Yes, allowed
Bad idea but allowed

"The rest of the house on regular breakers"
Kinda. . It would really be "the rest of the house" after you put in a 2nd AFCI
You'll need that 2nd AFCI for the bedroom lights because you don't have it on the same circuit as the plugs
"5 receptacles in each bedroom, (no lights)"
 
One more thing for commercial projects.

If the Engineer designs his prints with lighting and plug separation, in Ohio the municipal [city/county] electrical inspector is supposed to enforce that print spec. . You can get a disapproval for deviating from the prints for not separating. . In Medina County you will get a disapproval.
 
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