Residential Panel / Hot Tub

[Greg Swartz]

I was referred from our local Hot Tub retailer to give a price on a Hot Tub installation.

Went to the house, and saw the panel... well part of it anyway... it's a FPE stablock, and it's behind a cabinet.

I told the HO that I will not install anything in the FPE panel, besides, there is not enough room, and even if there were, the panel is only wired for 100A. (Enough experience in this part of town to tell that without looking.)

I told him that I need to upgrade the panel before we install the hot tub.

Anyway, it's a back to back meter / panel setup. The meter has 2" GRC coming up to it on the outside of the house, with the FPE nippled through on the inside of the house.

I told the HO that we cannot put panels behind cabinets anymore (or bathrooms, or kitchens, or on stairs), so the cabinet would have to go, unless he wants to explore putting a WP meter / panel combo. He wants to explore the outdoor option.

So, I went outside, and the deck out back where the meter is, makes the roofline come down to about 7'.

I figured that there is not enough room to put a combo panel / meter on top of the 2" GRC, and not hit the roofline.

I don't want to put a seperate panel to the side, because all the wiring goes directly to the panel, which is directly behind the meter.

Does that make sense?

Any suggestions?


Thanks,
Greg

 

[Ed Carr]

Greg, can you cut the rigid back to gain more clearance?

Ed

 

[Greg Swartz]

Greg, can you cut the rigid back to gain more clearance?

Ed

I had thought about that, but those are live wires there.
Once I remove the meter, I'm dealing with live, unprotected feeders, straight to the transformer.

Really want to avoid that.

 

[Ed Carr]

Get the poco to do a diconnect/reconnect.

Ed

 

[Greg Swartz]

Get the poco to do a diconnect/reconnect.

Ed

Haven't done one of those in quite a while...

Any other suggestions before I suggest that route?

 

[frenchelectrican]

I pretty much agree with Ed on this one the POCO disconnection maybe the best move and it is the safest way due you will end up removing the conductors in the conduit.

For the POCO disconnection I don't know if they will disconnect at the bug location or at the transfomer depending on the set up.

However I done some hot work before and I am not crazy with it espcally if on ridge conduit riser.

Merci,Marc

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't understand. Why can't you install a panel where the meter is and move the meter to the side of the panel. Used the GRC to bring the wires from the interior panel to the exterior.

Another option is to install an LB on the rigid and move the meter and panel where necessary.

 

[Greg Swartz]

I agree, it is probably the smartest move.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[Greg Swartz]

I don't understand. Why can't you install a panel where the meter is and move the meter to the side of the panel. Used the GRC to bring the wires from the interior panel to the exterior.

Another option is to install an LB on the rigid and move the meter and panel where necessary.

The interior panel will be removed, and a simple 12 x 12 junction box will be in it's place. Currently there is a nice sized hole in the back of the cabinet (that should not be illegal, right?) that will allow access to the junction box.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The interior panel will be removed, and a simple 12 x 12 junction box will be in it's place. Currently there is a nice sized hole in the back of the cabinet (that should not be illegal, right?) that will allow access to the junction box.

You can just take the guts out of the interior panel and use it as a JB.

 

[Greg Swartz]

You can just take the guts out of the interior panel and use it as a JB.

Couldn't remember if that was legal or not.
But even if I did, then putting the meter to the side of the panel would require the panel to be a raceway to the meter, then back through to feed the panel.

I guess then both panels would be back to back, which would be good for connection points.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Couldn't remember if that was legal or not.
But even if I did, then putting the meter to the side of the panel would require the panel to be a raceway to the meter, then back through to feed the panel.

Again I am missing what you are doing here what panel are you referring to the inside or outside. I am suggesting putting the old interior panel back to back with the new panel. The meter would be to one side of the outside panel. I am not sure what you mean by

the panel to be a raceway to the meter

I guess then both panels would be back to back, which would be good for connection points.

Yes back to back panels.

 

[Greg Swartz]

On the outside of the house is a 2" GRC riser. This currently has a meter on it. The meter nipples into the current panel.

If I understand correctly, you are suggesting to remove the meter, and put the new panel on the 2" riser (unprotected feeders) and nipple back to back to the old panel which will now be used as a junction box.

I need to get a meter in there somewhere.

 

[frenchelectrican]

Greg.,

I do not know if your POCO do allowed All in one set up aka meter/breaker box combo as one unit?

If they do allowed can you set up all the one box then take short fexi from all in one to the old panel { that will be gutted to junction box duty }

Will that work to your flavour ?

Merci,Marc

 

[Greg Swartz]

Greg.,

I do not know if your POCO do allowed All in one set up aka meter/breaker box combo as one unit?

If they do allowed can you set up all the one box then take short fexi from all in one to the old panel { that will be gutted to junction box duty }

Will that work to your flavour ?

Merci,Marc

That's where the first part of this post goes.
Currently there is not enough height from the 2" GRC riser to the roofline for a combo panel / meter

So, someone suggested to call POCO and remove power, cut down 2" riser, and try that.

It's looking like that will be the best bet.

Out in Colorado Springs, the meter needs to be between 5' & 6' to center of meter. So, the bottom of the panel will be pretty low: maybe 40"

 

[brantmacga]

greg, in this situation i install a 2-pole fused disconnect (70A square D model) next to the meter. I get the poco to shut it down and tap the service conductors (unless there is a disconnect already in place; in that situation i shut it off there and tap the feeders). Its a quick and easy setup and keeps you from touching the existing equipment.

 

[Minuteman]

greg, in this situation i install a 2-pole fused disconnect (70A square D model) next to the meter. I get the poco to shut it down and tap the service conductors

Brant, without there being a disconnect already in place (as you mentioned) simply tapping the service conductors and installing an outside "main" and having the original inside "main(s)" would be a volation of 230.71 (A) and 230.72 (A)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If I understand correctly, you are suggesting to remove the meter, and put the new panel on the 2" riser (unprotected feeders) and nipple back to back to the old panel which will now be used as a junction box.

I need to get a meter in there somewhere.

No, that is not what I am suggesting but I am now guessing that the riser cannot be moved? Is that correct. I was suggesting moving the riser and the meter then nipple into the new panel. The new panel would be connected to the pipe that feeds the interior panel.

 

[Minuteman]

Greg, got pics?

 

[Greg Swartz]

Greg, got pics?

Nope.
Just a picture in my head.

Can you do the Vulcan Mind Meld... via computer?