Residential Panel / Hot Tub

[Minuteman]

Can you do the Vulcan Mind Meld... via computer?

Not working... Are you a Mac? 'Cause I'm a PC.

 

[brantmacga]

Brant, without there being a disconnect already in place (as you mentioned) simply tapping the service conductors and installing an outside "main" and having the original inside "main(s)" would be a volation of 230.71 (A) and 230.72 (A)

i would agree on 230.72(A) only if this were new work. i've never been turned down for doing it; rules can get fuzzy on old work.

 

[Minuteman]

It's either grouped or it's not.

 

[Greg Swartz]

It is finished... almost...

It is finished... almost...

Ok, so here goes...

We did the job. We did not need to cut the GRC riser. Instead, we installed a new panel adjacent to the meter, and went caddy corner on the old panel and new panel.

Did I pass the inspection, you say? No, we, didn't.

But for a few reasons...
1st reason: The inspector wants us to bond the GEC to the old panel AND the new panel... I guess the new panel is not sufficient...

2nd reason: Bond the Hot Tub motor to the hot tub panel...
I understand that it should be bonded, but that is a UL issue. We did not manufacture the hot tub, and therefore should not be responsible for this.

3rd reason: The old range wires were too short... so we had to run a splice. No problem... throw a Blue wirenut, and everything is ok... WRONG... the range wiring is AL. So, he wants an AL to AL listed wirenut... well we can't find any... the closest we can find is a CU to AL wirenut and they only go up to #8...
What is the issue here? Am I missing something?

 

[quogueelectric]

I was referred from our local Hot Tub retailer to give a price on a Hot Tub installation.

Went to the house, and saw the panel... well part of it anyway... it's a FPE stablock, and it's behind a cabinet.

I told the HO that I will not install anything in the FPE panel, besides, there is not enough room, and even if there were, the panel is only wired for 100A. (Enough experience in this part of town to tell that without looking.)

I told him that I need to upgrade the panel before we install the hot tub.

Anyway, it's a back to back meter / panel setup. The meter has 2" GRC coming up to it on the outside of the house, with the FPE nippled through on the inside of the house.

I told the HO that we cannot put panels behind cabinets anymore (or bathrooms, or kitchens, or on stairs), so the cabinet would have to go, unless he wants to explore putting a WP meter / panel combo. He wants to explore the outdoor option.

So, I went outside, and the deck out back where the meter is, makes the roofline come down to about 7'.

I figured that there is not enough room to put a combo panel / meter on top of the 2" GRC, and not hit the roofline.

I don't want to put a seperate panel to the side, because all the wiring goes directly to the panel, which is directly behind the meter.

Does that make sense?

Any suggestions?


Thanks,
Greg

Tape the feeders up real good. Unscrew the nipple riser. Slide it off (unenergized of course) Cut the nipple back and spin it back on the feeder riser. Make sure this is all on video for a u-tube segment.

 

[JohnJ0906]

1st reason: The inspector wants us to bond the GEC to the old panel AND the new panel... I guess the new panel is not sufficient...

Is the original panel still a service panel, or is it now fed from the new one?

3rd reason: The old range wires were too short... so we had to run a splice. No problem... throw a Blue wirenut, and everything is ok... WRONG... the range wiring is AL. So, he wants an AL to AL listed wirenut... well we can't find any... the closest we can find is a CU to AL wirenut and they only go up to #8...
What is the issue here? Am I missing something?

Don't use a wire nut.

Try a polaris connector, or something similar. Like this.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

1st reason: The inspector wants us to bond the GEC to the old panel AND the new panel... I guess the new panel is not sufficient...

This is not necessary if the old panel is a sub panel. If the gec goes to the meterbase or main panel that is all that is necessary.

2nd reason: Bond the Hot Tub motor to the hot tub panel...
I understand that it should be bonded, but that is a UL issue. We did not manufacture the hot tub, and therefore should not be responsible for this.

There is no rule in the NEC that requires bonding to the panel. The bonding is an equipotential bonding if installed outdoors. Bonding grid to the motor not the panel.

3rd reason: The old range wires were too short... so we had to run a splice. No problem... throw a Blue wirenut, and everything is ok... WRONG... the range wiring is AL. So, he wants an AL to AL listed wirenut... well we can't find any... the closest we can find is a CU to AL wirenut and they only go up to #8...
What is the issue here? Am I missing something?

Use polaris or split bolts.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I had thought about that, but those are live wires there.
Once I remove the meter, I'm dealing with live, unprotected feeders, straight to the transformer.

Really want to avoid that.

i've done underground feed service changes where there is a piece of
2" grc, and it's just stuck down into a 2 1/2" pvc 90.... pull the panel,
slide the rigid off, cut to length, slide back on... where the panel is
on a garage wall, easiest thing is to take the drywall off the whole bay,
floor to ceiling, and replace when done. then you've got room to work
with stuff. you can cut the stucco or whatever is outside to fit, and
slide the panel into the opening from the back... no patchiing:smile:

doing it hot? well.... it can be done, but it violates safe work practices.
truth be told, i've done it once, i will never do it again.

you've got primary fuses on the poco's transformer that are sized for
half a dozen houses or more, and if you fault it, you're gonna have a
bucketload of amps in your lap. but you already know that....

scheduling an outage is really what you are left with. please don't do
it hot. i like reading what you post here, and an obit. post would suck.

randy

 

[growler]

I told the HO that we cannot put panels behind cabinets anymore (or bathrooms, or kitchens, or on stairs), so the cabinet would have to go, unless he wants to explore putting a WP meter / panel combo. He wants to explore the outdoor option.

Simple solution to complicated problem. Don't give the homeowner the option. Tell him the cabinet has to go. Do your work and get it inspected and if the homeowner wants to put the cabinet back into place then it's his problem.