Residential prices

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Notice how I added one sentence at the end of my last post to keep it on track with the thread. It is more important to do that here than the other places where I mess things up. Residential prices and spelling are very important subjects, they go hand in hand.
 
I had a GC come up to me and ask me to give a "ballpark" price on a 2500 Sq footer the other day. Nothing special, really, 12-18 hi hats, a few ceiling fans, 200 amp service with copper and conduit.

Says his EC quoted it at $5700.

I told him I probably wouldn't be able to beat that price and that he'd be hard pressed to find a better price than that.
 
RonPecinaJr said:
I had a GC come up to me and ask me to give a "ballpark" price on a 2500 Sq footer the other day. Nothing special, really, 12-18 hi hats, a few ceiling fans, 200 amp service with copper and conduit.

Says his EC quoted it at $5700.

I told him I probably wouldn't be able to beat that price and that he'd be hard pressed to find a better price than that.
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That's $2.28 per foot, that's pretty freak'n low. I love how GC's are always shopping bids around. They have no loyalty whatsoever. You could bend over backwards, do little things for free, really go the extra mile trying to improve customer retention, and they'll take your next bid and shop it all over town and if they can save $100, they'll forget they ever knew you.
 
jmsbrush said:
We just did a house that size with more can lights for $20,000 and had $3000 in change orders, It wasn't near enough.
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Hi James,

What size house are you referring to? 4,700 SF or 7,000 SF? I only ask because the OP changed from 7,000 SF down to 4,700 SF.

Also, how many hours did the job take you and what was your material cost?

PS. Regarding this whole spelling issue: While there are a few spelling errors in the detail report, I must take exception to it being called an abomination. Let's try to stay within the lines of common decency in constructive criticism and not paint an exaggerated mental picture where others might be led to form a false impression.

Regards,
 
RH1 said:
That's $2.28 per foot, that's pretty freak'n low. I love how GC's are always shopping bids around. They have no loyalty whatsoever. You could bend over backwards, do little things for free, really go the extra mile trying to improve customer retention, and they'll take your next bid and shop it all over town and if they can save $100, they'll forget they ever knew you.
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Friend of mine asked me what to charge for 5 houses. I told him he is safe with $5 per ft., with no light fixtures supplied and everything else he described.

He just called me. He is on his 3rd house and said I'm making money but it isn't service work money like I'm used to. Moan and groan, well at least I'm staying busy but that's not enough.


Just lost a house to another shop, job went for $17,200, I was over $400. Done countless favors for these clowns, no more. As I have heard on this forum. Everybody pays from now on. No churchy, senior, friend, referral, discounts.

I'm getting grumpy in my old age.
 
Bill Ruffner said:
PS. Regarding this whole spelling issue: While there are a few spelling errors in the detail report, I must take exception to it being called an abomination. Let's try to stay within the lines of common decency in constructive criticism and not paint an exaggerated mental picture where others might be led to form a false impression.

Regards,
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Well OK, but I'm well known for my ability to overstate matters using colorful phrases. :)
 
About the spelling issue:

I think the english language is flawed, that is why there spelling bees. There no set rules, which brings it into memory trick realm. It has no bearing on true intelligence, practical intelligence, creative intelligence, and most likely successful intelligence.

IMO it is the thought that counts, I have learned many O trick from our brothers from the south.

I used to do pages of algebra in high school and was a bonehead in english.

My teacher in 5th grade asked me (about my spelling) what are you going to do when you get older?

I said, "I will push a button".

She said, "I should be a science fiction writer".

Mmm the word "SCIENCE" (i before e except for science?) Can't remember the fake rule.

It is easy to find fault, I can bag on anybody's work.

Remember, thinking clearly is not thinking.:D
 
Power Tech said:
IMO it is the thought that counts, I have learned many O trick from our brothers from the south.
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Over the last 5 years I've made learning Spanish a priority and now I'm pretty fluent. Learning another language has revealed to me just how difficult and problematic the English language is and why many Spanish speakers struggle with it.

The English language uses many Homonyms and this makes learning it very frustrating.

Also our vowels can be pronounced many ways, this is not the case in Spanish.
 
RH1 said:
Down boy. First off, I am certain I know much more about this product than you do. Being as familiar with TurboBid as I am, I feel I am qualified to say that it is truly a masterpiece. Bill Ruffner is the only creator of estimating software that is an actual contractor and it shows. TurboBid is the best residential estimating program there is.

OK, let's now tackle the subject of spelling. I don't expect construction workers to appreciate the importance of correct spelling but I will adress this issue nonetheless.

Your claim that by pointing out the deplorable spelling in these reports that I am somehow "slamming" this product is nonsense. The fact that either you are incapable of recognizing misspelled words or do not care when you see misspelled words is really an issue to take up with your third grade teacher, not me. Nothing in my criticism "slammed" this product.

As an intelligent, well educated person, I am offended when I see poor grammar or misspelled words. When I see such things I immediately form a bad impression of the person or product I'm reading about. I deal with mouth breathing, knuckle dragging goons every day, I have very low expectations for them and expect a very low level of literacy from them. I have higher expectations for professional, commercial products.

Personally, I would be ashamed to post my work product on the internet and have it riddled with spelling errors.
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OK Einstein, so you know more about TurboBid than I do. So what? I didn't say you slammed the product. I said you slammed Bill Ruffner and his Detail Report that he posted, because you did. I found your comments to be condescending and rude. Also, please don't presume to know that I am incapable of recognizing poor spelling, or that I don't care about it. You'd be hard-pressed to find misspelled words in anything I write. Poor spelling and poor grammar drive me nuts. But I'm not "offended" by it, as you are. I am more offended by people who disregard someone's effort and make a point only to expose the weaknesses. That's disrespectful. The least you could have done was said " Hey Bill, nice work. By the way, there's some misspellings in it."

RH1 said:
The difference between you and I, JES2727, is that I am a proponent for high standards and proper spelling and grammar, and you are not. Congratulations.
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No, the difference between you and I, RH1, is that you are presumptuous, ignorant, rude, disrespectful, and inconsiderate. And I'm not.
 
Bill Ruffner: Thanks for taking the time to work up and post that bid. I believe your bid was $16365 and mine was $16000 so I guess I was in someones' ballpark. By the way, just to clarify things a little, where I'm at we don't run any service drops...just mount a meter can and run 2 4/0 Als into two MB panels. The POCO ties in the meter. I guess that has a substantial impact on costs compared to other regions where you all have to do otherwise. Also where I'm from all the electricians have impeccable spelling and grammar.
 
fisherelectric said:
I'm sorry...my bad. This place is not 7000sq ft. It's more like 4700 counting the garage. Being too low is not what he meant. This is a typical house around here. Nothing fancy. He'll sell it for ~1.2 mil. No bells and whistles. Half the top floor is the master suite...big bath..big closets. Big rooms. He'll find someone to wire this place for 10grand...I guess. I'll probably talk to him this evening about where exactly his "ballpark" is. I could of made (some) money at 16k and kept my guys busy this winter if I were to get the whole project (six) with all our other stuff. Plus then there are always owner extras.
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I wouldnt touch it for less than 25kif that makes you feel better. I have gotten 15k for basement apartments by me but I try to grab all electrical . Burg vac tv phone computer hvac It adds up fast
 
what would you bid

what would you bid

200 amp urd
single circuits:
gas heat
micro
dw
sump
washer
40 amp ac
30 amp dryer
4 110v bbu smokes
3 110v bbu cmd
2 50 cfm bath fans
door chime
3 cat 5e phones
2 rg6 quad tv
arc fault per code
gfi per code
27 light jb's
30 sw
51 rec
3 wp rec
$500 fixture allow
$65 insp allow


4 bed 2.5 bath 2200 sq ft single family
 
fisherelectric said:
Bill Ruffner: Thanks for taking the time to work up and post that bid.
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You're welcome Fisherelectric.

Actually, the entertainment value derived from the following posts was well worth the effort.

In all seriousness, the dialog provided a valuable lesson. As an electrical contractor, I know the importance of submitting professional looking bid packages to my customers. I have no doubt that they judge me by the documents that I present to them. This is especially true of new customers. If they don't know me, the only thing that they have to judge me by is my bid package. They will assume that the quality of my work will match the quality of my bid package.

I honesty believe that we need to use our bid package to sell confidence.


  • When we submit professional looking, highly detailed proposals that leave no gray areas as to what is included, and/or excluded, our customers start to develop confidence in us.

  • I know that this is a point of contention to some, but if the customer has provided a blueprint, I also provide value engineering in my bid package. I give my customers a price per plan as well as a price for value engineering.

    Value Engineering means that the electrical layout will provide the most cost-effective, yet code specific, layout possible. Devices are added to meet the requirements of the National Electrical Code (NEC) and all applicable local amendments. Devices are also eliminated and/or relocated in order to lower the cost while still maintaining the industry standard for electrical design. I want my customers to count on my expertise in this area. The architect is not their electrical contractor, I am. If I can lower their cost thru value engineering, I will have an advantage over my competition.

  • When we provide quantity take-offs that detail exactly what is being installed, we continue to increase confidence. I take it a step further and provide a room by room quantity take-off. For example:

    • Bedroom #2

      • 1 Single Pole Toggle Switch

      • 5 15A Duplex Receptacles

      • 1 Smoke Detector

  • We should also provide a listing of standard option pricing that shows the prices that we will charge for standard items like switches, dimmers, can lights, etc. For example, if the customer decides to add some paddle fan outlets to the project after we have already signed a contract, they will know what we will charge them for the change order. (This also goes a long way toward increasing your margins since these individual prices will include higher profit margins than the original bid)

If you can provide this level of professionalism, with no spelling errors, your potential customers will have more confidence in you than what they have in your competition. The best part is that not only do you stand a better chance of being awarded the job, you won't have to be the lowest price. It's a fact that customers will pay more money to someone that they have confidence in!

I hope this gives some food for thought.

Regards,
 
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