Residential range rated 15kw

bullheimer said:
Dont forget the GFCI breaker.
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If initially the range is not compatible with a gfci breaker , I’ll install a standard 2 pole breaker and run the oven for a chemical burn off, and once complete I’ve had positive results with the ranges being compatible with gfci protection . Mass added rule 11 to the mass electrical code . You submit a “gfci unwanted tripping form” to the state and inform the wiring inspector of the issue . And the branch circuit for ranges that prove to be incompatible with gfci protection can be protected by a standard 2 pole breaker (omit gfci protection )
 
never heard of that in WA. it was a brand new ckt so shouldnt have any isses with a 4 prong outlet. I got a correction last summer. The range was not present at that time.
(I do want to just note that every single new range i've seen in years has come wired for a 3 prong outlet for some reason. Then when the installers from Lowes show up they cry about 3 prong outlets needing to be changed to 4 prong!) I did net a text when the range was being installed who said my GFI breaker was tripping with the new range. I told him to remove the factory installed jumper, which he did, and the GFI breaker was happy.
 
bullheimer said:
never heard of that in WA. it was a brand new ckt so shouldnt have any isses with a 4 prong outlet. I got a correction last summer. I haven't heard back from the customer so things must be hunky dory. I do want to just note that every single new range i've seen in years has come wired for a 3 prong outlet for some reason. Then when the installers from Lowes show up they cry about 3 prong outlets needing to be changed to 4 prong! I did net a text from a cat who said my GFI breaker was tripping on his range or dryer or whatever last month plugged into a 4 prong. I told him to remove the factory installed jumper, which he did, and the GFI breaker was happy.
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The factory jumper does not have anything to do with the issue I’m referring to .rule 11 in mass is not restricted to ranges either it applies to incompatible electrical installations. And gfci comparability with ranges and has been an ongoing issue since 210.8(d)(8)and 210.8(a)(5) started requiring us to provide gfci protection for ranges regardless of their location
 
Jaybone812 said:
If initially the range is not compatible with a gfci breaker , I’ll install a standard 2 pole breaker and run the oven for a chemical burn off, and once complete I’ve had positive results with the ranges being compatible with gfci protection . Mass added rule 11 to the mass electrical code . You submit a “gfci unwanted tripping form” to the state and inform the wiring inspector of the issue . And the branch circuit for ranges that prove to be incompatible with gfci protection can be protected by a standard 2 pole breaker (omit gfci protection )
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TX+MASTER#4544

Thanks ,I did not know that.
What if it's still not compatible with the GFCI?
OK, I read it.
Mass. should send that "rule" to our state department of licensing (TDLR) for an amendment to our state NEC Code.

Oh, while you're burning off the chemical residue, enough time to toss in a pizza and have a ________to celebrate victory over GFCI?

As a well known poster says..."cheers"....

And, have a very Merry Christmas, y'all from all of us down here in the great state of Texas where....... we tip or hats to the ladies and the rose of San an-tone.....(lyrics)
Feliz Navidad........ y'all
 
Thanks for the great help with this. I spoke with the inspector and he agrees- 40 or 50 amp. He asked me to check with the manufacturer if I wanted to use the 50amp so I called them and they recommended the 40amp.
 
TX+ MASTER#4544 said:
Example: Your range.... 15kW - 12kW = 3 kW x 5% for every additional kilowatt over 12kW per note No.1 of T.220.55
15kW - 12 kW = 3 kW X 5 percent.....3 X .05 = 0.15....or 1.15%

Now, you must increase T.220.55 C column (per the note no. 1) for one 8 kW range from column C and increase it by 1.15 %.

Thus, 8,000 W X 1.15 % = 9200 watts. 9200 watts / 240 volts =38.33 amps,40 amp OCPD.
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This here is the minimum demand load for the range mentioned in OP.

Can use a 40 or a 50 amp circuit - more of a personal preference as either is code compliant here.

You would have to turn on every element on the thing to see 15 kW of load, won't run for very long before elements begin cycling and reducing overall load at any given point in time, which is a major factor in why they have this set of demand factors for cooking appliances. 15kW is 62.5 amps @ 240V. A 40 amp breaker would hold for a probably several minutes without tripping, but load won't remain at that level indefinitely either. 50 amp breaker would hold even longer at that level.
 
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kwired said:
This here is the minimum demand load for the range mentioned in OP.

Can use a 40 or a 50 amp circuit - more of a personal preference as either is code compliant here.

You would have to turn on every element on the thing to see 15 kW of load, won't run for very long before elements begin cycling and reducing overall load at any given point in time, which is a major factor in why they have this set of demand factors for cooking appliances. 15kW is 62.5 amps @ 240V. A 40 amp breaker would hold for a probably several minutes without tripping, but load won't remain at that level indefinitely either. 50 amp breaker would hold even longer at that level.
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2023NEC
The 40 amp breaker is safer.

220.56 ......"electric ranges and ovens are either thermostaticlly controlled or for intermittent use for kitchen equipment......"

Example; when you set the thermostat on your oven it will immediately start and reach the desired temperature and maintain that setting until it starts the cycle all over again, thus allowing for the conductors to cool down and then allowing for the rang/oven to begin the heating cycle all over once more.

It will not trip the circuit breaker, again, the conductors had time to cool down prior to reheating.

That's why there are demand factors for multiple cooking appliances found in other than dwelling units (restaurant(s).

Similar to section 220.56 for kitchen equipment other than dwelling units and demand factor for up to 6 units and over.
They are either thermostatic controlled or intermittent used as kitchen equipment.

Thanks for reading
Comments accepted
TX+MASTER#4544
 
infinity said:
Why would a 40 amp branch circuit be safer than a 50 amp branch circuit? As long as the conductors are sized correctly what's the difference between the two? The NEC permits either one.
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It is not safer. People who don't know any better might think it is because of the lower rating but the CB is there to protect the conductors, not the appliance.
 
TX+ MASTER#4544 said:
The 40 amp breaker is safer.
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A 50 amp breaker would need to have 50 amp conductor.

NEC also allows multiple cooking appliances on a 50 amp circuit with tap conductors to each appliance and no additional overcurrent protection on said taps.

If you do happen to draw excess current for too long the OCPD does trip. If you selected things per the demand factor the chance of overloading for long enough time to be a problem is low.

If you put same range on a 20 amp breaker and only ever used one surface element that maybe would be safer in some ways as well I guess.
 
infinity said:
Why would a 40 amp branch circuit be safer than a 50 amp branch circuit? As long as the conductors are sized correctly what's the difference between the two? The NEC permits either one.
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2023 NEC TX
For a simple definition of overload, see Article 100 Overload "...........would cause damage or dangerous overheating."
It's safer.
What if he put a 60 amp OCPD on the conductors?
Trust the Code.

TX+MASTER#4544
 
TX+ MASTER#4544 said:
2023 NEC TX
For a simple definition of overload, see Article 100 Overload "...........would cause damage or dangerous overheating."
It's safer.
What if he put a 60 amp OCPD on the conductors?
Trust the Code.

TX+MASTER#4544
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You've lost me. You said that a 40 amp branch circuit is safer than a 50 amp branch circuit when supplying this range. What does an overload have to do with it? The conductors are protected from overload by the OCPD.
 
TX+ MASTER#4544 said:
2023 NEC
.

Question: Is it permissible per Code to install one 30 amp or one 40 amp or one 50 amp single circuit for up to three electric ovens in a dwelling and treat them as equivalent to one range?
View T. 220.55 and note 6.

.

Thanks for reading
Comments accepted.
TX+MASTER #4544
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If the three are wall mounted ovens than No.
I think note 3 would apply if all wall mounted ovens.

If one is counter mounted and two are wall mounted. Yes, kinda. Need name plate info for sizing. So the 30 may to small for three.
If you treat them like one range.

Pretty sure the code is referring to a cooktop(counter mounted cooking unit) on the counter top surface and two wall mounted ovens.

Please let me know if I'm looking at this correctly. We have been discussing this topic at work. It all started with 40 amp breaker and conductor for a range on 50 amp receptacle.
The it took a turn from there to demands.
 
TX+ MASTER#4544 said:
2023 NEC TX
For a simple definition of overload, see Article 100 Overload "...........would cause damage or dangerous overheating."
It's safer.
What if he put a 60 amp OCPD on the conductors?
Trust the Code.

TX+MASTER#4544
Click to expand...
Hey, I just said it's SAFER.
There's safe, safer and safest.

TX+MASTER#4544
 
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