mikefunkhouser
New member
do smokes in a residence by code have to be fed from a general lighting circuit?
residential smoke detectors
- Thread starter mikefunkhouser
- Start date
- Status
davedottcom
Senior Member
Re: residential smoke detectors
See 210.12
Dave
See 210.12
Dave
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: residential smoke detectors
Smokes aren't addressed by the NEC.
What Dave is telling you is that they do qualify as an outlet, so they need to be supplied by an Arc Fault breaker. The easiest way to do this is to feed them from whatever circuits are feeding your bedroom AFCI's.
Smokes aren't addressed by the NEC.
What Dave is telling you is that they do qualify as an outlet, so they need to be supplied by an Arc Fault breaker. The easiest way to do this is to feed them from whatever circuits are feeding your bedroom AFCI's.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: residential smoke detectors
In Massachusetts they do.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: residential smoke detectors
George I thought the same thing when AFCI was changed from receptacle outlet to outlet.Save the $$$ for afci breaker.Well sometimes I think that was a mistake,we have had about 10 homes that have been a thorn in our sides .Smokes going off at different times of the day.Check entire circuit all connections tight and clean,replace all smokes.Call back after call back after call back.Swapped phases tried it all.By the way these were tagged of a bedroom circuit.Send in service direct home run no more calls :roll: Last ditch effort was to feed direct and that solved the call backs.
George I thought the same thing when AFCI was changed from receptacle outlet to outlet.Save the $$$ for afci breaker.Well sometimes I think that was a mistake,we have had about 10 homes that have been a thorn in our sides .Smokes going off at different times of the day.Check entire circuit all connections tight and clean,replace all smokes.Call back after call back after call back.Swapped phases tried it all.By the way these were tagged of a bedroom circuit.Send in service direct home run no more calls :roll: Last ditch effort was to feed direct and that solved the call backs.
Re: residential smoke detectors
About 2 weeks ago I was at a supply house and I was reading the directions for a BRK Electronics model 9120 smoke alarm without backup battery. They listed several requirements:
1. Has to be installed in accordance with National Electrical Code article 760.
2. Has to be installed in accordance with NFPA 72, National Fire Alarm Code.
3. Has to installed in accordance with NFPA 101, Life Safety Code.
4. If you are using an Uninterruptible Power Supply the UPS must be of the sine wave type, not square wave or quasi sine wave.
So, BRK Electronics must think that we have to use non-power limited fire alarm cable instead of romex. They must somehow think that there is a portion of NFPA 72 that says that a residential smoke alarm is a self contained fire alarm circuit and that interconnected smokes and carbon monoxide detectors must be a fire alarm system.
Now, an Uninterruptible Power Supply also happens to nullify AFCI protection but by the time that I stick in a hard-wired UPS I might as well put in a commercial grade fire alarm system.
Guess that I will have to try to find NFPA 72 over at the library or borrow a copy from somebody for a few weeks.
I suppose that BRK Electronics is trying to cover their rear ends because these devices are being used as a cheap fire alarm system.
I have also encountered a business that proves that the low battery chirp that 120 volt smoke detectors produce has to be at least 99% INEFECTIVE at getting people's attention. I had to hag this guy for 2 years to let me replace 3 9 volt batteries and the whole time the smokes were beeping about once a minute at the employees and customers. One of the maintenance headaches was that the only ladder for the job required 2 people to handle it.
What really gets me is why can't BRK Electronics make the smoke and CO alarms in a 24 volt AC version OR make the things with 4 wires dual voltage 120 volts or 24 volts? Using a 24 volt class 2 control transformer would make the AFCI debate a moot point. Sure, I would have to use a 75 VA transformer but why not? The detector has to knock down the 120 volts to a lower voltage anyways.
About 2 weeks ago I was at a supply house and I was reading the directions for a BRK Electronics model 9120 smoke alarm without backup battery. They listed several requirements:
1. Has to be installed in accordance with National Electrical Code article 760.
2. Has to be installed in accordance with NFPA 72, National Fire Alarm Code.
3. Has to installed in accordance with NFPA 101, Life Safety Code.
4. If you are using an Uninterruptible Power Supply the UPS must be of the sine wave type, not square wave or quasi sine wave.
So, BRK Electronics must think that we have to use non-power limited fire alarm cable instead of romex. They must somehow think that there is a portion of NFPA 72 that says that a residential smoke alarm is a self contained fire alarm circuit and that interconnected smokes and carbon monoxide detectors must be a fire alarm system.
Now, an Uninterruptible Power Supply also happens to nullify AFCI protection but by the time that I stick in a hard-wired UPS I might as well put in a commercial grade fire alarm system.
Guess that I will have to try to find NFPA 72 over at the library or borrow a copy from somebody for a few weeks.
I suppose that BRK Electronics is trying to cover their rear ends because these devices are being used as a cheap fire alarm system.
I have also encountered a business that proves that the low battery chirp that 120 volt smoke detectors produce has to be at least 99% INEFECTIVE at getting people's attention. I had to hag this guy for 2 years to let me replace 3 9 volt batteries and the whole time the smokes were beeping about once a minute at the employees and customers. One of the maintenance headaches was that the only ladder for the job required 2 people to handle it.
What really gets me is why can't BRK Electronics make the smoke and CO alarms in a 24 volt AC version OR make the things with 4 wires dual voltage 120 volts or 24 volts? Using a 24 volt class 2 control transformer would make the AFCI debate a moot point. Sure, I would have to use a 75 VA transformer but why not? The detector has to knock down the 120 volts to a lower voltage anyways.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: residential smoke detectors
"1. Has to be installed in accordance with National Electrical Code article 760.
2. Has to be installed in accordance with NFPA 72, National Fire Alarm Code.
3. Has to installed in accordance with NFPA 101, Life Safety Code.
4. If you are using an Uninterruptible Power Supply the UPS must be of the sine wave type, not square wave or quasi sine wave.
So, BRK Electronics must think that we have to use non-power limited fire alarm cable instead of romex. They must somehow think that there is a portion of NFPA 72 that says that a residential smoke alarm is a self contained fire alarm circuit and that interconnected smokes and carbon monoxide detectors must be a fire alarm system.
Now, an Uninterruptible Power Supply also happens to nullify AFCI protection but by the time that I stick in a hard-wired UPS I might as well put in a commercial grade fire alarm system.
Guess that I will have to try to find NFPA 72 over at the library or borrow a copy from somebody for a few weeks."
Your last statement is very appropriate for contractors today. The manufacturers are pushing as much of the responsibility to the contractors as they can and this has changed, and will continue to change contracting as we knew it.
Instead of throwing the instructions away before reading them, we now have to read them or weap.
[ April 27, 2005, 07:04 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
"1. Has to be installed in accordance with National Electrical Code article 760.
2. Has to be installed in accordance with NFPA 72, National Fire Alarm Code.
3. Has to installed in accordance with NFPA 101, Life Safety Code.
4. If you are using an Uninterruptible Power Supply the UPS must be of the sine wave type, not square wave or quasi sine wave.
So, BRK Electronics must think that we have to use non-power limited fire alarm cable instead of romex. They must somehow think that there is a portion of NFPA 72 that says that a residential smoke alarm is a self contained fire alarm circuit and that interconnected smokes and carbon monoxide detectors must be a fire alarm system.
Now, an Uninterruptible Power Supply also happens to nullify AFCI protection but by the time that I stick in a hard-wired UPS I might as well put in a commercial grade fire alarm system.
Guess that I will have to try to find NFPA 72 over at the library or borrow a copy from somebody for a few weeks."
Your last statement is very appropriate for contractors today. The manufacturers are pushing as much of the responsibility to the contractors as they can and this has changed, and will continue to change contracting as we knew it.
Instead of throwing the instructions away before reading them, we now have to read them or weap.
[ April 27, 2005, 07:04 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
- Status