Resistive wiring?

[kwired]

Article by a news organization on a recent house fire included:

Family members said they have been told by firefighters that the fire was started from wiring. It is a very cold night and was drawing a lot of voltage with heat.


...the fire marshal listed the cause of the fire as “resistive wiring.”

Probably true the origin of the fire appeared to be related to wiring.

Cause mentioned, though made to general public that most won't understand anyway, is kind of pathetic and leaves actual cause wide open to speculation.

Use of electric space heaters may or may not have contributed - they never mentioned them at all, though a very cold night (it was -20ish that night) can increase the chance of space heaters being involved. If space heaters were not involved, it likely could have happened any day of the year as I see it.

 

[ptonsparky]

Between firefighters and and less than qualified reporters we’re lucky to have anything resembling fact reported. Even the Fire Marshals explanation is skewed to that of the reporters understanding. Pretty much pathetic.

 

[jumper]

It is a silly statement. Misleading at best.

One could easily just as soon say “ the wiring had some resistance and caused amps to flow which resulted in a situation of unwanted power and caused the fire.”

My head hurts from just writing that.

 

[kwired]

Between firefighters and and less than qualified reporters we’re lucky to have anything resembling fact reported. Even the Fire Marshals explanation is skewed to that of the reporters understanding. Pretty much pathetic.

I understand most that read that news won't know what happened there if the explanation is too technical, but would be nice to include some commentary about what may have triggered the cause so readers maybe think about it if they have done similar things.

What was reported otherwise can be taken so many ways - improper use of items by owner, improper install by whoever installed things, something that only happened because it was very cold outside...

If they don't want to release the exact cause... I am fine with that also - could have an impact on what follows, but what statements were given (at least by the media) are kind of pointless and possibly misleading.

 

[jumper]

Oh my, I did not even read the top part closely at first.

The wiring/heater was “drawing a lot of voltage”............

 

[kwired]

Oh my, I did not even read the top part closely at first.

The wiring/heater was “drawing a lot of voltage”............

That was supposedly comment by firefighters - volunteer firemen in the small community where this happened. I can tolerate incorrect use of terminology to some extent in that kind of situation. To laymen that statement probably means electrical wiring was being pushed to some extent beyond usual, which may or may not have been true as they never actually mentioned use of electric heaters, it is just kind of presumed they are involved.

 

[hbiss]

This is what we should expect when Millennials go to college for journalism and become reporters. They have no clue beyond their iPhones. Anybody else would have known to ask questions like "were heaters involved" and "what does that mean?"

-Hal

 

[goldstar]

Use of electric space heaters may or may not have contributed - they never mentioned them at all, though a very cold night (it was -20ish that night) can increase the chance of space heaters being involved. If space heaters were not involved, it likely could have happened any day of the year as I see it.

One of the more difficult things I've tried to explain to both HO's as well as business owners is that just because you see an electrical receptacle doesn't mean you could plug anything into it.

One of my wife's cousins (a CPA) had a store front office and wanted to save a few $$ on heating oil. Sooooooooo.. he went out and bought about 8 stand-alone heaters and started plugging them in all over the place. Now, while the receptacle circuits were all 20, amp the building was so old that it still had fuses (and it was a 3-phase panel to boot). Needless to say, he ran out of fuses and I had to not only re-arrange what was plugged into where, I had to run several new circuits and had to find re-settable fuses. What a PITA.

 

[kwired]

One of the more difficult things I've tried to explain to both HO's as well as business owners is that just because you see an electrical receptacle doesn't mean you could plug anything into it.

One of my wife's cousins (a CPA) had a store front office and wanted to save a few $$ on heating oil. Sooooooooo.. he went out and bought about 8 stand-alone heaters and started plugging them in all over the place. Now, while the receptacle circuits were all 20, amp the building was so old that it still had fuses (and it was a 3-phase panel to boot). Needless to say, he ran out of fuses and I had to not only re-arrange what was plugged into where, I had to run several new circuits and had to find re-settable fuses. What a PITA.

Disregarding potential fire hazards, I'm sure he did save on heating oil, but that don't mean he spent less, there is also an electric bill, unless this was in a place with low electric rates.

 

[goldstar]

Disregarding potential fire hazards, I'm sure he did save on heating oil, but that don't mean he spent less, there is also an electric bill, unless this was in a place with low electric rates.

No, not really but it's tough explaining things to a CPA if it's beyond taxes or tax code. That book is much larger than our NEC

 

[kwired]

As I said there is no mention of what might have been loading circuits in the news article.

Here there are many people that have various portable heaters that are marketed on how safe they are - low surface temps and how efficient they are - you can "zone heat" different spaces without turning up the thermostat on your main heating system. All marketing comments have some truth to them, but they all still draw 1000 watts or better - and run for long periods of time. I have seen my fair share of melted cord caps, melted receptacles, overheated terminations on devices anywhere in that circuit path - they are not as safe as they want to claim they are. Difference between these and say a 1600 watt hair dryer or even small cooking appliances when it comes to electrical fire potential these things run fairly constantly, and for days at a time, the hair dryer or cooking appliance runs for short time and often is attended while in use.

 

[jumper]

That book is much larger than our NEC

Only by about a factor of 75 and that is just federal.

 

[ggunn]

This is what we should expect when Millennials go to college for journalism and become reporters. They have no clue beyond their iPhones. Anybody else would have known to ask questions like "were heaters involved" and "what does that mean?"

-Hal

That's an awfully broad brush you are wielding. There are lots of folks in that age group who are competent in what they do and quite serious about it.

 

[Besoeker]

Oh my, I did not even read the top part closely at first.

The wiring/heater was “drawing a lot of voltage”............

Ignorance is bliss as the saying goes......

 

[Jraef]

Disregarding potential fire hazards, I'm sure he did save on heating oil, but that don't mean he spent less, there is also an electric bill, unless this was in a place with low electric rates.

Not necessarily... I once leased an old building built in the 1800s that had been subdivided by the owner into smaller tenant spaces. We each had our own gas meters, because gas was installed sometime in the 1980s, but there was only one electrical service and all of the tenants had electricity included as part of the rent as a fixed cost based on our square footage. So our electricity cost was the same whether we used it or not. We turned off the gas heater and used portable electric heaters...

 

[kwired]

Not necessarily... I once leased an old building built in the 1800s that had been subdivided by the owner into smaller tenant spaces. We each had our own gas meters, because gas was installed sometime in the 1980s, but there was only one electrical service and all of the tenants had electricity included as part of the rent as a fixed cost based on our square footage. So our electricity cost was the same whether we used it or not. We turned off the gas heater and used portable electric heaters...

existing tenants probably locked in with a lease agreement of some sort, but I bet it didn't take long for owner to change the standard agreement for new tenants, especially if it was in a place that gets really cold every year.

 

[sameguy]

When in doubt "it's electrical ", after all when the fire is out and they look for the cause, the wires never have insulation on them!

 

[rcarroll]

When in doubt "it's electrical ", after all when the fire is out and they look for the cause, the wires never have insulation on them!

Yep, but now, the AFCI breakers trip & stop the fire.

 

[kwired]

Yep, but now, the AFCI breakers trip & stop the fire.

If electric heaters were in use, and maybe over time caused a "glowing connection" to develop say on receptacle terminals (seen this several times with such applications) an AFCI won't trip. Most times that "glowing connection" burns itself into an open circuit condition and the threat is over at that point. Should combustibles get too close - just dust/lint over time accumulating in an otherwise properly installed box can be enough, you have a potential fire starting point.

 

[rcarroll]

Yeah, I was being facetious.