Rigging Switchgear

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horsegoer

Senior Member
Location
NJ
FOr new construction if they were pouring the slab and using CMU walls I assume it would be easier to rig/set switchgear before the walls go up. I am referring if a crane is being used. Does this make sense? Thanks.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
A few things could come into play very quickly. If this is a real cause for concern go to the Architectural plans and check the door size(s). In most cases this is where they have 8'-0" doors and or roll-up doors usually equal to double wide door way each 36" wide.

I'll go on the record and say "NO' this should not be a concern, first off the building is usually dryed in. These means that weather should not be a concern to anything that would occupy the space, only then does the equipment get set.

IMO, you don't want gear on site, unprotected from the weather and one certainly don't want other trades working around it (unpackaged) or over it. No other trades care about the gear and will use it and abuse it at will.
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
Location
NJ
A few things could come into play very quickly. If this is a real cause for concern go to the Architectural plans and check the door size(s). In most cases this is where they have 8'-0" doors and or roll-up doors usually equal to double wide door way each 36" wide.

I'll go on the record and say "NO' this should not be a concern, first off the building is usually dryed in. These means that weather should not be a concern to anything that would occupy the space, only then does the equipment get set.

IMO, you don't want gear on site, unprotected from the weather and one certainly don't want other trades working around it (unpackaged) or over it. No other trades care about the gear and will use it and abuse it at will.

Thanks Cad so your saying that's riggin gear is usually the last thing to happen
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Thanks Cad so your saying that's riggin gear is usually the last thing to happen

I'm not saying that at all, the larger the job the longer the lead time thats needed for big jobs. Alot of things have to be done before "Gear" is placed.

It's not that electrical work can't be done like introducing the home runs into the gear room (space), I'm trying to keep in mind your top down OP here.

With big jobs like 1 million up, electrical gear gets schedule for deliviery and alotted time for staging and placement. Of course this all depends on who's doing a schedule (when or what required); and of course switchgear generally requires months for manufactures!

I'm saying that in general the building will be dried in, all structural work done, a real roof on and even the walls painted (in some cases) before the gear is set.
 

MEP_PM

Member
Along with making sure the doors are wide enough for the gear to fit through. Make sure they are tall enough with the gear on a pallet and the entire pathway is large enough, including any hallway corners.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
A few things could come into play very quickly. If this is a real cause for concern go to the Architectural plans and check the door size(s). In most cases this is where they have 8'-0" doors and or roll-up doors usually equal to double wide door way each 36" wide.

I'll go on the record and say "NO' this should not be a concern, first off the building is usually dryed in. These means that weather should not be a concern to anything that would occupy the space, only then does the equipment get set.

IMO, you don't want gear on site, unprotected from the weather and one certainly don't want other trades working around it (unpackaged) or over it. No other trades care about the gear and will use it and abuse it at will.

Storing Swgr can be a problem. Condensation is the biggest issue when storing any gear whether of not you tarp it. There will be condensation unless space heaters have been supplied as an option that can be energized. The best thing for you to do is to only accept delivery when you plan to set the gear. But by all means don't take delivery until you are ready and not even to be Mr. nice guy. I have had my plant tell me the flat bed will be there of a specific day to deliver a walk in electro center. The contract schedules a crane, only one section of three arrives. I was never told that there were three flatbeds shipped on different days.
Also, plan ahead by getting a copy in the instruction as what you need and how to move the gear into place. You certainly don't what to damage it and you do want to know what you may need for rigging.
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
Location
NJ
I'm not saying that at all, the larger the job the longer the lead time thats needed for big jobs. Alot of things have to be done before "Gear" is placed.

It's not that electrical work can't be done like introducing the home runs into the gear room (space), I'm trying to keep in mind your top down OP here.

With big jobs like 1 million up, electrical gear gets schedule for deliviery and alotted time for staging and placement. Of course this all depends on who's doing a schedule (when or what required); and of course switchgear generally requires months for manufactures!

I'm saying that in general the building will be dried in, all structural work done, a real roof on and even the walls painted (in some cases) before the gear is set.


Thanks for the info Cad
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Storing Swgr can be a problem. Condensation is the biggest issue when storing any gear whether of not you tarp it. There will be condensation unless space heaters have been supplied as an option that can be energized. The best thing for you to do is to only accept delivery when you plan to set the gear. But by all means don't take delivery until you are ready and not even to be Mr. nice guy. I have had my plant tell me the flat bed will be there of a specific day to deliver a walk in electro center. The contract schedules a crane, only one section of three arrives. I was never told that there were three flatbeds shipped on different days.
Also, plan ahead by getting a copy in the instruction as what you need and how to move the gear into place. You certainly don't what to damage it and you do want to know what you may need for rigging.

Thanks.
 

laketime

Senior Member
Done many large projects with switch gear but never had to set it as the walls were going up. Sometimes not easy to get it into place but better than having it destroyed during the construction project. Not to mention with
close clearance space the masons will need to access behind the gear.
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Either CVS or Walgreens, forget which, they use a Square D Switchgear system that contains, 480v, transformer, lighting control panels and panelboards all in one enclosure. The Equipment must be rigged in before the roof gets set in place. It is a major planning event. Saves on installation labor, but I would rather employ more field electricians.
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
Either CVS or Walgreens, forget which, they use a Square D Switchgear system that contains, 480v, transformer, lighting control panels and panelboards all in one enclosure. The Equipment must be rigged in before the roof gets set in place. It is a major planning event. Saves on installation labor, but I would rather employ more field electricians.

I put some Sq D switchgear together 6 mos. ago and it was the biggest POS I've ever put together. Bar none. Man, it still makes me mad just thinking about it....
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
I put some Sq D switchgear together 6 mos. ago and it was the biggest POS I've ever put together. Bar none. Man, it still makes me mad just thinking about it....

Square D is definitely not the elite Switchgear it was 20 years ago.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Just for grins these are pictures of some the switchgear that I sold over the years. Sometimes it's just nice to look at some pictures of stuff.
The first pictures are of a MV swgr lineup with the first VCP breakers, the generation just before the VCP-W that are used today. In that same room directly across from it are (2) 2500kva double ended lineups.
The walk in switchgear as a most awesome job because those don't come along very aften. This job is the one that was delivered on 3 separate flatbed trucks on different days.
 

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eric9822

Senior Member
Location
Camarillo, CA
Occupation
Electrical and Instrumentation Tech
I put some Sq D switchgear together 6 mos. ago and it was the biggest POS I've ever put together. Bar none. Man, it still makes me mad just thinking about it....

We installed a large SQ D lineup about 6 years ago and nothing lined up correctly. Last two jobs were Eaton and we had no problems.
 
T

T.M.Haja Sahib

Guest
In some models of switchgear the clearance between its door and the plant room floor is very small so that a concrete bed of suitable height for placing the switchgear is required.Then the insulating rubber mat placed in front of the switchgear would not be required to be removed for opening the door of the switchgear.This point may be noted while casting the concrete slab for placing the switchgear.
 
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templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
In some models of switchgear the clearance between its door and the plant room floor is very small so that a concrete bed of suitable height for placing the switchgear is required.Then the insulating rubber mat placed in front of the switchgear would not be required to be removed for opening the door of the switchgear.This point may be noted while casting the concrete slab for placing the switchgear.
What I have have come to know as a house keeping pad.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
We installed a large SQ D lineup about 6 years ago and nothing lined up correctly. Last two jobs were Eaton and we had no problems.
My gear was Westinghouse and Eaton after that which came out of the same plant. I kept fairly close with the contractors and never had any complains about the actual construction itself. The inky problem that I had was that the design engineers pulled some stupid things when going to the order entry specs to what was actually released to the floor such as supplying AL ground bus instead of CU, the wrong lenses in ILs, the way the control wiring was secured such as none of these stick of wire tie fasteners were allowed where an actual mechanical fasting technique was specified. A lot of dumb stuff like that which cost the company thousands of dollars to rectify. I could convince the customer to be nice an sign off on some things but others I couldn't. The gear was clearly not built to spec. I has been embarrassing to say the lease. But the fit and finish was always exceptional.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
My gear was Westinghouse and Eaton after that which came out of the same plant. I kept fairly close with the contractors and never had any complains about the actual construction itself. The inky problem that I had was that the design engineers pulled some stupid things when going to the order entry specs to what was actually released to the floor such as supplying AL ground bus instead of CU, the wrong lenses in ILs, the way the control wiring was secured such as none of these stick of wire tie fasteners were allowed where an actual mechanical fasting technique was specified. A lot of dumb stuff like that which cost the company thousands of dollars to rectify. I could convince the customer to be nice an sign off on some things but others I couldn't. The gear was clearly not built to spec. I has been embarrassing to say the lease. But the fit and finish was always exceptional.

worst thing i've ever seen was a piece of MV gear from abbot laboratories, of buena park, calif. (long ago out of business)

$2M thereabouts worth, in a refinery... got asked the wed. before thanksgiving, to stay a couple hours, and pull some covers
off, so that hipot could be done over the 4 day weekend, to allow commissioning.... when we opened the covers, we found
signal cables sleeved thru 34.5 kv enclosures, in 1/2" aluminum flex, attached to panel enclosures with sticky backs and
tie wraps... some of the sticky backs had come loose, and the flex was hanging right above the 2,000 amp main bus, the next
couple sticky backs to come off would have dropped it across the bus when it was live.... the list went on and on... we rebuilt
the gear that weekend, brought in induction soldering equipment, even a portable plating tank for redoing the bus bars that
had to be cut and reshaped.... nothing would hipot at 50kv, corona was walking all over the gear....

your remark about stickybacks for attachment brought it to memory... i'm assuming you broker switchgear... how do you
offset contractual liability for something you provide, when the vendor supplies junk? the vendor of the above mentioned gear
closed up shop as a result of the gear mentioned above that they provided.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
In some models of switchgear the clearance between its door and the plant room floor is very small so that a concrete bed of suitable height for placing the switchgear is required.Then the insulating rubber mat placed in front of the switchgear would not be required to be removed for opening the door of the switchgear.This point may be noted while casting the concrete slab for placing the switchgear.

I've commonly known them as "house keeping pads."
 
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