Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

[iwire]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

Bill I have some questions.

Why is that 3 conductor SE?

Why is there no supports on the PVC under the meter?

Is the SE run at as much of an angle as it looks in the top picture? (proving Noxx's point)

Here there is no requirement for protection below eight feet so it would be SE all the way.

I have never seen SE sleeved in raceway in this area, if the area was subject to damage we would use pipe all the way.

We would never use 3 wire ahead of the service disconnect on 120/240 single phase.

 

[hbiss]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

Oof! That looks like the siding guys did it! What's with the "S" at the top? It's far from plumb also.

Here we are not required to protect SE with PVC. If we had to, I agree, I would run the whole thing in PVC. Probably more work to sleeve SE.

SE is 3 wire. That's all we ever use for this. We use SER where we need a neutral and ground but why would you need it here? What would you do with a separate neutral and ground? No place to connect them in the meter pan.

 

[iwire]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

If you say 12/2 NM how many conductors are in it?

When I say 2 wire SE I am referring to the insulated conductors.

But I agree this looks like SER, 3 wire + grd and I was wondering why they would choose that.

 

[bill addiss]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

Bob,

It's not SER, and not really meant as being a good example, but I thought it would give those that haven't seen it enough of an idea. I think this house was resided after the service was changed and the reason for the 'out of plumb' cable.

hbiss,

what's wrong with the 'S' at the top?

Bill

 

[bill addiss]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

hbiss,

Sorry, I was short of time before. You're probably thinking that the cable should have gone (straight) up and across to the left. The way the SE weatherheads are made it looks (IMO) like it's not too hard for water to enter the cable if they're installed horizontally, so the reasoning here was to put the weatherhead in a position where water getting in was less likely.

Does anyone else do this?

Bill

 

[hbiss]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

Looks like H---! Looks like it's close enough to the end of the house that you could go straight up. Move the point of attachment (eye bolt) to the same side if the drip loops will be too big. (Might not be possible here though if the drop comes from the front and you can't hit the side- can't really tell from the photo). Keep everything straight and plumb just as if you were running pipe. This is what makes an SE service look good.

 

[hbiss]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

Sorry Bill, I was writing when you posted. Yes, if you can't move everything over to go straight up you can put the whether head horizontal. Pack it with duct seal if you feel it will fill with water. Looks better than the "S".

 

[iwire]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

Originally posted by hbiss:
Keep everything straight and plumb just as if you were running pipe. This is what makes an SE service look good.

I feel the same way, use more than the required clips and when completed it will be straight as a piece of rigid.

I like the fold around clips, they almost disappear.

 

[noxx]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

Well I'll refrain from further aesthetic commentary, but I don't feel any sudden urge to abandon GRC as my standard for service risers.

 

[bill addiss]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

hbiss,

No, the point of attachment had to be in the front because of where the pole was. Sorry I didn't have a better example, I only seem to have pictures of bad stuff. The reason this one was taken was to show how crooked the cable was after the siders put the straps back on it, but that's not important here, I only meant to show what an SE weatherhead looked like.

If anyone has a better picture please post it or send it to me and I'll post it.

Bill

BTW, the pictures I have of Pipe services are worse than this one.

[ November 02, 2003, 03:49 AM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]

 

[pierre]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

Every person on this forum and every person who works in this field is 'weaned' on a particular method, as you work the method (SE, Rigid, PVC, Etc..) you become comfortable with it . Also if the area you work in has a particular method that is prevalent, then it may not be competitive to wire in a more expensive method, so you may find yourself with no work .
Just because there are bad jobs shown with SE cable, does not mean that every SE cable job looks bad. I have seen some horrible pipe work that will make one cringe with embarrassment for our industry. As I have stated, every method has it's place and there are good reasons why they are used. I myself have used all three methods and will continue to use the proper one when necessary. The only method I am skeptical about for long term use is EMT in wet areas of the country because of the eventual rusting of the raceway.
One of the reasons this type of forum is so important is to learn what others are doing, and doing it successfully. Don't knock it, tolerate it!

Pierre

 

[russellroberts]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

What's the proper name for an SE cable weatherhead? I just have always called them "nail on weatherheads" because thats the way most of the old ones we replace are fastened to the house.

Russell

 

[iwire]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

I think the proper name may be service head for SE.

When I ask for them I say give me a weather head for x/x SE or x/x SER.

This place calls them Entrance caps

 

[russellroberts]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

Thanks Bob. We have used these on some of the older "cabins" built in the '50s on the lake here. They typically have a 60a service and we just bump it up to 100a and use the SE cable method when the need arises.

Russell

 

[Guest]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

Painted EMT will resist rust longer longer than unpainted RMC (or unpainted EMT). Aluminum won't rust, but it can get chalky especially near the ocean breeze.

 

[hbiss]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

Services around here used to be done with EMT in the 50's and 60's. It was considered a good job vs the mineral insulated SE available back then. Give EMT 20 years exposure here in the NE and it will fall apart no matter how much paint is on it.

 

[hillbilly]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

In one area of Tennessee where I work it is not allowed to install SE cable on a masonary wall. The reasoning is the masonary will attack the PVC jacket. When I install a service in this area it is usually in rigid PVC with stranded copper conductors and the required attachment point on the house if there is enough height available. If not then I use a (required) 2 1/2" rigid steel mast and go thru the eave. If I install SE, I never use a weatherhead, rather I bend a "gooseneck" at the end and tape it. I've never had a "gooseneck to straighten out after installation. I've got installations of SE cable that are 20 years old and they still look good. If SE is installed right and well supported, it looks good (IMO).\
steve

 

[charlie]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

I think Pierre had it right when he said,

Every person on this forum and every person who works in this field is 'weaned' on a particular method, as you work the method (SE, Rigid, PVC, Etc..) you become comfortable with it.

It is the same question as a person who learned Lotus and is expected to use Excel now. Lotus is much better since that is what you learned. The same applies to Word Perfect/MS Word, Paradox/MS Access, or PVC/RGC/SE.

 

[bill addiss]

Re: Rigid vs. PVC for Service Entrance Mast

I think Pierre had it right ..

I'll second that!

Bill