romex and metal box?

[A/A Fuel GTX]

OK.....I was thinking of 250.86 Exception 2. I guess it all depends on the interpretation of the word "short"

 

[romeo]

romex and metal box?

I've used them of course, but I never was a big fan of the grounding clips. Threaded screw and pigtail into the machine hole in the back of the box-yes, much better.

I agree about the grounding clip, I know they are labeled and listed for the purpose but I never liked the sharp bend the gec makes when it leaves the clip.

jmo

 

[romeo]

romex and box?

romex and box?

To paraphrase Gary Seinfeld, "Why have a box?"

Very good point.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

To paraphrase Gary Seinfeld, "Why have a box?"

Who knows.......I wasn't there for the install Still thinking about 250.86 Ex 2 though

 

[rwreuter]

yes.

in 4" square boxes (surface mount) I use a screw, in nail-up boxes (flush mount) i use a clip.

Don't forget it (screw or whatever) HAS to be green, and not painted or sharpied green either.

 

[e57]

my reply was to post number two. Please show me a code article that says I have to ground the device along with the box. I'd like to see it.

2008 NEC
Receptacles 406.3(C)
Switches 404.9(B)

Yep - them ones are the same in the '05 NEC too... Don't tell me mcclary, you're one of those who think all switches and recepticals are 'self-grounding', and don't need anything on the silly green screw on the device?

 

[jaylectricity]

Yep - them ones are the same in the '05 NEC too... Don't tell me mcclary, you're one of those who think all switches and recepticals are 'self-grounding', and don't need anything on the silly green screw on the device?

Not this again. Start reading here.

 

[e57]

Not this again. Start reading here.

Well I guess it is 'this' again.... Not sure if 250.146(B) was brought up in that thread - but it is clear that self-grounding devices are listed for the purpose and required when the yoke is not in contact with the box to include removal of the little plastic screw holder... (Requiring the box or ring be proud of finish...) Otherwise the receptical yoke must be grounded with a wire EGC... And I only mention it because I often come across people from LaLa land who think otherwise.... :roll: Additionally - That somehow switches need no EGC... 404.9(B)1 is not worded as well - but I don't think many inspectors would accept a loose free-floating switch install to a metal metal box as "Effectively grounded" - otherwise 404.9(B)2 is in effect IMO....

A "listed self-grounding" device yoke - like the one pictured on this receptical below are not found on many switches, and even fewer (if any?) dimmers.

 

[LarryFine]

A "listed self-grounding" device yoke - like the one pictured on this receptical below are not found on many switches, and even fewer (if any?) dimmers.

No, but they do not require removal of the plastic or fiber screw retainer. The piece on the yoke permits the screw itself to act as the conductor, and does not depend on yoke-to-box contact, which does require retainer removal.

I also have used G-clips from time to time, and have no issue with them when properly installed and not stretched apart.

 

[e57]

No, but they do not require removal of the plastic or fiber screw retainer. The piece on the yoke permits the screw itself to act as the conductor, and does not depend on yoke-to-box contact, which does require retainer removal.

Recpt.'s or switches??? For self-grounding type recept's - you would not have to remove the plastic screw retainer on the other screw....

Recept.'s - 250.146 requires an EGC unless 250.146 one the situations in (A~D) are met. (A) lays out removal of the plastic or fiber screw retainer for SURFACE MOUNTED metal boxes, (B) for self-grounding devices, which I assume you mean that "piece on the yoke"? (C&D floor boxes and isolated...)

Switches - while (like mentioned before) the wording of 404.9(B)1 is not as clear (true) - but a loose installation does not qualify for 250.4(A)5 IMO. The yoke is not "mounted to the box" - if anything in most cases it is mounted to sheetrock and loosely at that. Requiring a EGC IMO.

 

[curt swartz]

Don't forget it (screw or whatever) HAS to be green, and not painted or sharpied green either.

Do you have a code reference to back that up?

 

[480sparky]

Don't forget it (screw or whatever) HAS to be green, .........

I sure hope not.

 

[jaylectricity]

Well I guess it is 'this' again....

I was hoping you'd pay more attention to mcclary's posts in that thread.

 

[rwreuter]

concerning the grounding/bonding screw, i guess this is the problem with different jurisdictions.

usually when someone becomes an apprentice, they are taught things that the NEC says and they learn what it says, plus, they then have to learn what that county or state may require. after awhile the two just meld together and you begin to think that the NEC requires both.

my fault, if i remember correctly (am sure i don't, and i thought the NEC backed it up) the WAC (Washington Administrative Code) required the screw to be green, especially for the bonding screw in the panel. they didn't want you to install a bonding screw in a panel that didn't belong there and color it green with a sharpie. usually that only happened when the apprentice lost the screw because he didn't put in there when he opened the panel. the journeyman would notice it after they were finished and he was inspecting it. by that time the screw was long gone.

 

[Nium]

Green Main Bonding Jumper Screw

Green Main Bonding Jumper Screw

2008 NEC

250.28(B) Main Bonding Jumper Construction. Where a main bonding jumper is a screw only, the screw shall be identified with a green finish...

250.148(C) Metal Boxes. A connection shall be made between the one or more equipment grounding conductors and a metal box by means of a grounding screw that shall be used for no other purpose, epuipment listed for grounding, or a listed grounding device.

rwreuter,
You were right about the main bonding jumper screw needing to be green by the NEC, but alas the equipment grounding conductor screw (or bang on clip) doesn't need to be green. A clamp screw could be used as long as the clamp is removed and just the screw is used for the connection of the EGC to the box. If the EGC is looped under the clamp screw with the clamp installed holding down cable that wouldn't be allowed.

 

[rwreuter]

Thank you.

 

[ericgold]

Switches - while (like mentioned before) the wording of 404.9(B)1 is not as clear (true) - but a loose installation does not qualify for 250.4(A)5 IMO. The yoke is not "mounted to the box" - if anything in most cases it is mounted to sheetrock and loosely at that. Requiring a EGC IMO.

You guys install switches in a wall without a box? That just seems wrong to me.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Green ground screws are not listed.

The ground clip/clamp as shown in this thread is listed as suitable for grounding purposes.

 

[brantmacga]

You guys install switches in a wall without a box? That just seems wrong to me.

You're misinterpreting that post.


There is a box installed, but the yoke is doesn't make contact because of the wallboard between it an the box.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Yep - them ones are the same in the '05 NEC too... Don't tell me mcclary, you're one of those who think all switches and recepticals are 'self-grounding', and don't need anything on the silly green screw on the device?

If mounted to a metal box, it is considered grounded. I'm aware of the raised cover acceptions, but you said mounted to a metal box.