Romex in a Gutter

[zcanyonboltz]

If I need to make a j box say when changing a service to extend existing home runs to reach the new service location is there an article that discusses romex in gutters? I'll try to post a pic later today. 366.22 says no more than 20% fill. Would you just count up conductors use the volume allowance for each conductor from 314.16 (B) or you could use chapter 9 wire approximate area to determine fill?

Another example is I've seen old indoor panels gutted and used as a j box and then new wire is run to the new panel outside the house.

 

[infinity]

What do you mean by romex in gutters, are you just laying the NM cable in the wireway?

 

[zcanyonboltz]

Im not sure if gutter is the correct term?, but I'm not sure where else this would be in code book.

 

[kwired]

Im not sure if gutter is the correct term?, but I'm not sure where else this would be in code book.

Conductors inside the box in your photo would be based on cubic inch capacity and number and size(es) of conductors. Looks to be maybe an 8x8x4 so it is 256 cubic inches - you could get 113 12 AWG conductors in it if that is the correct size, or 64 conductors if it is only a 6x6x4. Of course it looks like you do have some cables with larger conductors so that will change things - but I don't think you are as full as you possibly could be with that box.

What you have there is not listed as an aux gutter nor is it being used as a gutter.

 

[zcanyonboltz]

Thanks! Yes it is an 8x8x4 box. If this box had pipe entering it with THHN conductors then would I use chapter 9 and approximate wire size to find the fill for each individual conductor and article 376 for requirements?

 

[infinity]

Each conductor would need the required cubic inch area as listed in T314.16(B).

 

[mjf]

Cable clamps are being misused also

 

[kwired]

Cable clamps are being misused also

True, but at least there are clamps, I have seen too many instances with no clamps at all, and the worst part is not potential abrasion on opening of the box, it is potential rodent entry into the box.

 

[zcanyonboltz]

Cable clamps are being misused also

What do you mean? What would the alternative or right way be?

 

[zbang]

Too many cables per clamp; check their listing/instructions.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Is that going to be left exposed or is it going to be framed around. I see the window drape to the side.

 

[zcanyonboltz]

Is that going to be left exposed or is it going to be framed around. I see the window drape to the side.

Not sure. I only added the circuits you can see running to the right of the box I did the drywall too, when I was adding the circuits homeowner said can you drywall this, I said sure:happyyes:.
I am curious how legal this is and where to find code for this for when I need to do a similar installation someday. Its in a laundry/utility room in a garden level basement there is a window right there at grade level, where the wires go out they're about 4'6" above the floor behind the washer and dryer kinda inaccessible. Looking in my code book now to see if they need to be framed around since its in the utility room? The initial service change may have passed inspection the neighbor told current homeowner that there was a minor outside fire involved. The ground settled and the underground service lateral was pulled down and the original panel was torn off the house so I think whoever did the service change had to get a permit but who knows.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Not sure. I only added the circuits you can see running to the right of the box I did the drywall too, when I was adding the circuits homeowner said can you drywall this, I said sure:happyyes:.
I am curious how legal this is and where to find code for this for when I need to do a similar installation someday. Its in a laundry/utility room in a garden level basement there is a window right there at grade level, where the wires go out they're about 4'6" above the floor behind the washer and dryer kinda inaccessible. Looking in my code book now to see if they need to be framed around since its in the utility room? The initial service change may have passed inspection the neighbor told current homeowner that there was a minor outside fire involved. The ground settled and the underground service lateral was pulled down and the original panel was torn off the house so I think whoever did the service change had to get a permit but who knows.

Well even if the service change had a permit. So what. What you did was new and You needed a permit.

 

[zcanyonboltz]

Well even if the service change had a permit. So what. What you did was new and You needed a permit.

Yes the homeowner is going to call for inspection after the entire job is finished, the entire house is in mid remodel now. I still need to remodel in some work once their framer is done and rough in the new kitchen circuit outlets. I'm just concerned if the box is not up to code if the inspector will say anything even though it was done 7-8 years ago. My point was I think it may have passed inspection but I don't know.

 

[mjf]

What do you mean? What would the alternative or right way be?

As was pointed out by others, check the listing of the clamps to see how many cables are allowed in them.

Also, the white NM cables entering on the left side of the box appear to be clamped on their sides instead of flat. Not even sure if that's a violation, but my first boss taught me to never do it.

 

[Nom Deplume]

Too many cables per clamp; check their listing/instructions.

Cables not secured within 12" of the box either.

 

[kwired]

Cables not secured within 12 inches of the box is a clear rules violation.

Protection from physical damage is subject to interpretation as to just how much damage they may be subjected to other then some AHJ's that have amendments that state more specifically then NEC does just what protection may be needed.

Number of cables permitted in the clamp does depend on listing/instructions of the clamp - most of the type shown will only allow two cables though.

Of more concern to me then any of those items is did they bond the EGC's to the box?

 

[zcanyonboltz]

Next time I go to job I will see if the box is grounded, if not I will ground it.