Romex in conduit attached to an enclosure (indoors), fastening requirements

[RustyShackleford]

When using conduit to protect Romex before it enters an enclosure - for example, coming up out of the crawlspace, up an un-finished wall to a disconnect - what fastening requirements are recommended and/or required ? (The conduit would run from the floor to the box).

What I've often done is to attach a female adapter to the far end of the conduit, and then screw an NM-B clamp into it. I suppose you could put the female adapter inside the enclosure (instead of the usual male adapter plus locknut, or box adapter) and use an NM-B clamp there - but it'd probably take up too much space.

I wonder if stapling the Romex within some distance of where it goes into the conduit is acceptable.

(Yes, I know you can't put Romex in conduit outdoors, unless you're a Tarheel and it's less than 6 ft).

 

[Jaybone812]

When using conduit to protect Romex before it enters an enclosure - for example, coming up out of the crawlspace, up an un-finished wall to a disconnect - what fastening requirements are recommended and/or required ? (The conduit would run from the floor to the box).

What I've often done is to attach a female adapter to the far end of the conduit, and then screw an NM-B clamp into it. I suppose you could put the female adapter inside the enclosure (instead of the usual male adapter plus locknut, or box adapter) and use an NM-B clamp there - but it'd probably take up too much space.

I wonder if stapling the Romex within some distance of where it goes into the conduit is acceptable.

(Yes, I know you can't put Romex in conduit outdoors, unless you're a Tarheel and it's less than 6 ft).

Yes the nm cable needs to be securely fastened within place within 12” of entering the conduit . When changing over you can use a listed changeover fitting or use some type of insulator to protect the nm cable sheath from abrasion . Using a nm clamp threaded into a female adaptor or a field manufactured changeover is a 110.3(b) violation. Cable sheath must be intact the entire length of conduit run .


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[RustyShackleford]

Yes the nm cable needs to be securely fastened within place within 12” of entering the conduit . When changing over you can use a listed changeover fitting ...

What's an example of such a changeover fitting ?

Using a nm clamp threaded into a female adaptor or a field manufactured changeover is a 110.3(b) violation. Cable sheath must be intact the entire length of conduit run .

The cable sheath wouldn't be compromised. It'd be secured in the Romex clamp as usual. You could think of the conduit as an extension of the enclosure.

 

[Jaybone812]

What's an example of such a changeover fitting ?

The cable sheath wouldn't be compromised. It'd be secured in the Romex clamp as usual. You could think of the conduit as an extension of the enclosure.

It’s a combination fitting this is a pic of a nm cable to emt fitting


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[RustyShackleford]

I know this is listed - but it looks an awful lot like an NM-B clamp screwed into a conduit fitting.

Except I'm talking about PVC. A cursory search doesn't reveal an equivalent part for PVC (nor have I ever seen one).

 

[Jaybone812]

I know this is listed - but it looks an awful lot like an NM-B clamp screwed into a conduit fitting.

Except I'm talking about PVC. A cursory search doesn't reveal an equivalent part for PVC (nor have I ever seen one).

Just use a pvc male TA with a insulting bushing or a bell end and staple the nm within 12 “ of the pvc


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[Jaybone812]

I know this is listed - but it looks an awful lot like an NM-B clamp screwed into a conduit fitting.

Except I'm talking about PVC. A cursory search doesn't reveal an equivalent part for PVC (nor have I ever seen one).

The cable isn’t required to be secured to the conduit it just needs to be secured within 12” of the conduit


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[RustyShackleford]

The cable isn’t required to be secured to the conduit it just needs to be secured within 12” of the conduit


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Yes, but does securing it TO the conduit eliminate the need to secure within 12" of the conduit (as long as you meet the spacing requirement beyond that) ? With the changeover adapter you pictured for EMT, I imagine so. But there doesn't appear to be such a part for PVC (even though a Romex clamp screwed into a solvent-welded female adapter looks virtually identical).

This is all prompted by a situation in which it'd be quite difficult to get a staple in within 12" of where the conduit sticks through the sub-floor. I guess I'm overthinking it (I'm an engineer).

 

[Jaybone812]

Yes, but does securing it TO the conduit eliminate the need to secure within 12" of the conduit (as long as you meet the spacing requirement beyond that) ? With the changeover adapter you pictured for EMT, I imagine so. But there doesn't appear to be such a part for PVC (even though a Romex clamp screwed into a solvent-welded female adapter looks virtually identical).

This is all prompted by a situation in which it'd be quite difficult to get a staple in within 12" of where the conduit sticks through the sub-floor. I guess I'm overthinking it (I'm an engineer).

No it does remove the requirement for the cable to be securely fastened before it enters the conduit . When nm enters a raceway it’s subject to the same conditions of securing as it is when it enters an enclosure . 334.15(b) requires us to fit the conduit with a type of bushing or adapter that protects the cable from abrasion so ideally all you need is a bang on bushing . But regardless of the type of bushing or combination fitting chosen the fitting or adapter doesn’t negate the requirement of securing the cable before it enters the conduit


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[Jaybone812]

Yes, but does securing it TO the conduit eliminate the need to secure within 12" of the conduit (as long as you meet the spacing requirement beyond that) ? With the changeover adapter you pictured for EMT, I imagine so. But there doesn't appear to be such a part for PVC (even though a Romex clamp screwed into a solvent-welded female adapter looks virtually identical).

This is all prompted by a situation in which it'd be quite difficult to get a staple in within 12" of where the conduit sticks through the sub-floor. I guess I'm overthinking it (I'm an engineer).

Read 334.30 . The cable must be secured within 12” of every cable entry into box, enclosure , conduit body or “fitting”


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[Jaybone812]

Yes, but does securing it TO the conduit eliminate the need to secure within 12" of the conduit (as long as you meet the spacing requirement beyond that) ? With the changeover adapter you pictured for EMT, I imagine so. But there doesn't appear to be such a part for PVC (even though a Romex clamp screwed into a solvent-welded female adapter looks virtually identical).

This is all prompted by a situation in which it'd be quite difficult to get a staple in within 12" of where the conduit sticks through the sub-floor. I guess I'm overthinking it (I'm an engineer).

Secure the cable in the basement before it comes through the floor . If you secure the cable within 3-6” of you’re access hole to the floor above that should easily satisfy the requirement of securing cable before entering the conduit


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[RustyShackleford]

The cable must be secured within 12” of every cable entry into box, enclosure , conduit body or “fitting”

Yeah, ok, I get it.

Secure the cable in the basement before it comes through the floor . If you secure the cable within 3-6” of you’re access hole to the floor above that should easily satisfy the requirement of securing cable before entering the conduit

That's the problem - in the crawlspace, very difficult to get near enough the hole in the floor to drive a staple. I could staple it just above the floor and then go into the conduit. But that seems kinda goofy, and the cable would be exposed there for an inch or two near the floor. Could always cover it with something ... .

 

[Jaybone812]

Yeah, ok, I get it.

That's the problem - in the crawlspace, very difficult to get near enough the hole in the floor to drive a staple. I could staple it just above the floor and then go into the conduit. But that seems kinda goofy, and the cable would be exposed there for an inch or two near the floor. Could always cover it with something ... .

Put a 90 degree bend on the pvc and drop it into the crawl space and start your sleeve for protection down there . Make your bend so your conduit entry ends up at an accessible point on a floor joist and send the cable up through the 90 .or if you can get within 12” f your hole to the upper floor to put a staple just stub the cinduit into the hole and poke into the crawl space


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[RustyShackleford]

or if you can get within 12” f your hole to the upper floor to put a staple just stub the cinduit into the hole and poke into the crawl space

Not following.

 

[Jaybone812]

Not following.

Drill your hole in the floor large enough for the conduit you are using and drop about 1” of pvc conduit into the crawlspace that way you have you have 12” to play with in the crawl space to secure the nm cable


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[hbiss]

This is all prompted by a situation in which it'd be quite difficult to get a staple in within 12" of where the conduit sticks through the sub-floor.

That's the problem - in the crawlspace, very difficult to get near enough the hole in the floor to drive a staple.

I get it. Just put your NM to conduit adapter on the end of the conduit, put your NM in and shove it down the hole. Just call it fished.

The other way, which I usually do, is to put an NM connector at the disconnect. Nothing down at the end where the conduit comes through the floor. You end your conduit just before the connector on the disconnect. This is the true definition of sleeving.

-Hal

 

[Jaybone812]

I get it. Just put your NM to conduit adapter on the end of the conduit, put your NM in and shove it down the hole. Just call it fished.

The other way, which I usually do, is to put an NM connector at the disconnect. Nothing down at the end where the conduit comes through the floor. You end your conduit just before the connector on the disconnect. This is the true definition of sleeving.

-Hal

334.15(b) requires a bushing or adapter on the end of the conduit to protect the cable from abrasion . It doesn’t have to be a combination fitting with a clamp like I said you can use a bang on bushing but there must be some type of bushing or adapter on the end of the conduit


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[hbiss]

334.15(b) requires a bushing or adapter on the end of the conduit to protect the cable from abrasion . It doesn’t have to be a combination fitting with a clamp like I said you can use a bang on bushing but there must be some type of bushing or adapter on the end of the conduit

Simply removing any burrs or chamfering with a pocket knife the ends of the PVC conduit will satisfy that requirement. Furthermore, you are talking about sleeving the NM. No fittings are used.

-Hal

 

[Jaybone812]

Simply removing any burrs or chamfering with a pocket knife the ends of the PVC conduit will satisfy that requirement. Furthermore, you are talking about sleeving the NM. No fittings are used.

-Hal

You’re sleeving it for protection because it’s exposed to physical damage . So 334.15(b) applies . Doesn’t matter that it’s not an entire conduit assembly the code rule says a bushing or adaptor “shall” be used and shall means must . Chamfering with a pocket knife does not satisfy the requirement while using conduit as a sleeve for protecting nm cable from damage


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