Romex in conduit to panel

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iwire said:
I am willing to admit (and already did) that it could be ruled either way, are you?
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I am 100% convinced it could be judged either way, surface mounted or recessed.(I took my stance to be a devil's advocate) Without a definition it would be difficult to say it is my way or your way.
This kind of situation is very challenging, and it is really good for a forum discussion such as we now have, as it makes us all think out of our "boxes".:cool:






76nemo said:
That kind of statement is enough to get any inspector to look at your every "T". A responsible EC should know just as much as his AHJ, and in many cases, hopefully a little more. Are you going to go through all the time and effort to install something and have the inspector come and tell you that you are non-compliant when you could of just opened your book ahead of time?
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Whenever a contractor or his men take on a project, part of the planning process should be a practice of opening the code book(s). That is the responsibility of the installer.
This practice will typically lead to questions, which most installers will then call the inspector of record. The inspector will then discuss the code issue with the installer.
A very good practice for both persons. Sometimes a great learning experience for all included.
 
ActionDave said:
But don't most inspectors have more resources directed toward learning the code?
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Not IMO.

ActionDave said:
And most contractors are trying to just get done not crossing every T?
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This might apply to some, but as Nemo said, after it becomes obvious to an inspector that certain contractors are doing that, their projects will be scrutinized with a fine toothed comb.

I make it a point (as do many here) to try to know as much or more than the inspectors.

Roger
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
which most installers will then call the inspector of record. The inspector will then discuss the code issue with the installer.
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And in some cases an inspector may even call the knowledgeable electrician with questions, discussion, or even ask for an opinion. :smile:

Roger
 
roger said:
And in some cases an inspector may even call the knowledgeable electrician with questions, discussion, or even ask for an opinion. :smile:

Roger
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Yep they call me and I call them we are a happy team here in DC. They learn from me and I learn from them.....we educate each other everyday. Great comment Roger! If one claims they know it all then I usually smile, wink, bow, and walk away.
 
roger said:
And in some cases an inspector may even call the knowledgeable electrician with questions, discussion, or even ask for an opinion. :smile:

Roger
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An inspector who does not take advantage of an electricians knowledge is is either egotistical or does not care.;)


When I go to a jobsite and the electrician is there, I ask a lot of questions. I preface this with a comment stating that he knows a lot more about the installation than I do and he is now teaching me. They love when I say that and the lesson begins. There are days when I still walk away puzzled. This is a very complex industry and I am still on this site just for that reason. I thrive on a challenge.


Roger.
Someone like me has over 5000 posts just for this reason....I learn every day.
 
dcspector said:
Yep they call me and I call them we are a happy team here in DC. They learn from me and I learn from them.....we educate each other everyday. Great comment Roger! If one claims they know it all then I usually smile, wink, bow, and walk away.
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Pierre C Belarge said:
An inspector who does not take advantage of an electricians knowledge is is either egotistical or does not care.;)


When I go to a jobsite and the electrician is there, I ask a lot of questions. I preface this with a comment stating that he knows a lot more about the installation than I do and he is now teaching me. They love when I say that and the lesson begins. There are days when I still walk away puzzled. This is a very complex industry and I am still on this site just for that reason. I thrive on a challenge.


Roger.
Someone like me has over 5000 posts just for this reason....I learn every day.
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Greg and Pierre, we are definitely on the same page, I wish all were.


Roger
 
roger said:
Greg and Pierre, we are definitely on the same page, I wish all were.


Roger
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I know one thing Roger I have been pushing to get more Md (Montgomery and Prince George County), Va, and DC inspectors on this site. This will be brought up in our next IAEI meeting for darn sure. I have never learned so much in my life as this Forum and have become a very good, open minded EI...... Wanted to add I talk to Pierre once in a while for advice which has really helped me in challenging issues.
 
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dcspector said:
I know one thing Roger I have been pushing to get more Md (Montgomery and Prince George County), Va, and DC inspectors on this site. This will be brought up in our next IAEI meeting for darn sure. I have never learned so much in my life as this Forum and have become a very good, open minded EI...... Wanted to add I talk to Pierre once in a while for advice which has really helped me in challenging issues.
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Greg
That is not true.
You do not speak to me for advice, we exchange ideas where we both learn and laugh a little.;):grin::cool:
 
There are times when there is no right or wrong way when it comes to the code only opinions and judgments. But I can?t help but speculate if you sent 10 electricians out to a job that has a wall as shown and said you wanted a recessed panel installed, how many would return with the panel saying no way the wall is solid concrete or would they mount the panel between the studs? Another thing I noticed is the panels are mounted forward of the stud facing. Is that for fitting a surface design cover or to allow for wall covering and a recessed cover? If were the ahj I would call the electrician informing that there is a potential problem.
 
Follow-up

Follow-up

The electrician moved all the greater than #12's out of the conduits.
Attached them with connectors.
Sealed both ends of the conduits.
The max in a single conduit is now 12- a mix of 12's and 14's.
All conduits were draftstopped.

Before
090316Lot1587-17.jpg

After
090327ViaAppia-10.jpg

I appreciate all the input. The consentaneous seemed to be there wasn't one right answer. Thanks
 
Larry,
"All you need now is to secure those cables within 12" of the panel."

Is there any hope for another conduit to contain the dangling cables?

How many UL approved holes, 2" diameter, can you drill in a wall plate?
 
sb1280 said:
Maybe I'll get the image posting figured out.

090316Lot1587-11.jpg


And the wall will be drywalled.
There are 880 amps of breakers in the left panel with 200 amp main.
There are 600 amps of breakers in middle panel with 200 amp main.
The right panel is a 100 amp panel feed from the middle panel with about 160 amps of breakers.
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On the after photos I see flush covers. Is drywall still in the plans?
 
WOW!!!!

The nec is not a dictionary.
If I had an owner that wanted the panel surface mounted and this is what he got I don't see how I would be able to convince him it was "suface mounted",but I see some here would give it a shot.
Had I sent a guy to this job to surface mount the panels he would have brought plywood out flush with the studs and cut a piece of plywood the size of the back box and mounted it to the plywood and the panel to that.
 
Still a hack job in my view. :D

At least he managed to use bushings even where they are not required or needed. :grin:
 
glene77is said:
How many UL approved holes, 2" diameter, can you drill in a wall plate?
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One hole or 10, the number doesn't matter. One hole compromises the plate just the same.

But, since these plates are not load-bearing structural members, it's not an issue.

If you were to make the same holes in load-bearing-wall studs, you would have to reinforce them.
 
I think everyone agrees this would not comply if call covering is installed.
Since these are not load-bearing walls what is the purpose of the 2X4 studs, if not for wall board? Sorry, I would not approve this installation.
 
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