Romex in Dental Office

[Pierre C Belarge]

Red flags pop up when someone lists themselves as an EC and says something like (this is not aimed at the OP) "I ran #12 romex to a kitchen range and the inspector turned down my installation, what size wire should I have used?"

BTW, did you look at the OP's profile?

Roger

I still stand by my first impression.. he is a GC loooking to do his own wiring. His profile says "contractor" and I bet he got an estimate from a EC to rewire the building.

That seems to be the new rage of doing business. The prices are slashed to nothing and the GC is looking to save a buck where ever he can.

I read the OP's question and automatically thought he was not in the trade. I did read his profile, and that is what lead me to post how I posted.


I guess you could say that at the very moment that I posted, I was frustrated at what I see in our great industry, and I said what I said.

I will still say, that reading the NEC will help a lot towards finding info and if not finding info, asking questions that will lead us to believe one is in the industry.

Jerome
I myself have been beaten down many times on this site, one either gets used to it or does not post. It is not so bad, I have good coverage for this sort of beating.

 

[B4T]

I myself have been beaten down many times on this site, one either gets used to it or does not post. It is not so bad, I have good coverage for this sort of beating.

Pierre.. I see electricians same as lawyers.. put 10 in a room and you will get 13 answers to a code question. An inspector is like a judge.. he has the power and the final say. Smart people ask the inspector before they do a job and read the code book. I have never come across an inspector who would not help me out with a job I was doing. Making mistakes costs you money, not to mention looking stupid.

Some blame the messenger and not the method for a job getting violated.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Pierre.. I see electricians same as lawyers.. put 10 in a room and you will get 13 answers to a code question. An inspector is like a judge.. he has the power and the final say. Smart people ask the inspector before they do a job and read the code book. I have never come across an inspector who would not help me out with a job I was doing. Making mistakes costs you money, not to mention looking stupid.

Some blame the messenger and not the method for a job getting violated.

Wait...we don't see that on this forum...do we? :grin:


Thinking about that comment a little more(and you thought I was quick )

If we were to only get 13 responses from a question, how do we wind up with such long threads?:grin:

 

[B4T]

If we were to only get 13 responses from a question, how do we wind up with such long threads?:grin:

must be all that "exposed romex" :grin:

 

[mthead]

Romex in Dental Office

Quick take on title of thread without yet having "threaded" my way thru the responses-
Short answer is;-- You cannot use RX in a patient care room-
in a dentist office the x-ray room,exam room ,treatment room...,pretty much any room with that good old dentist chair in it with all it's various implements of tooth destruction-those are patient care rooms and Hospital grade cable will be required to be used and we're talking homeruns for those patient rooms to the panel.You can run the hall lighting and office wiring and waiting area in regular MC or BX but you can't splice into the patient care room wiring up in the cieling
Youcan't mix and match with other wiring methods on your way home to the panel.
Additionaly if you are dealing with the typical dentist office set up-by which I mean you have a dropped ceiling employed as part of the design-you cannot use RX up there and you cannot have it running thru that dropped cieling.
If after all that you still feel inclined to use RX in this install and have what would basically be at least 3 different wiring methods being used on the one job site ?...,
well what can I say.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Quick take on title of thread without yet having "threaded" my way thru the responses-
Short answer is;-- You cannot use RX in a patient care room-
in a dentist office the x-ray room,exam room ,treatment room...,pretty much any room with that good old dentist chair in it with all it's various implements of tooth destruction-those are patient care rooms and Hospital grade cable will be required to be used and we're talking homeruns for those patient rooms to the panel.You can run the hall lighting and office wiring and waiting area in regular MC or BX but you can't splice into the patient care room wiring up in the cieling
Youcan't mix and match with other wiring methods on your way home to the panel.

I am sure you probably didn't mean just hospital grade cable, as there are other wiring methods permitted.

 

[north star]

Dental Offices

Dental Offices

`

In referring to dental offices, in looking in the 2008 NEC, wouldn't Article 517.10(B)
exclude the requirements of using HCF grade conductors in these types of
occupancies?

Thanks! :smile:

`

 

[arnettda]

Could a dentist move into a building prewired in romex. All new ckts added would be to code but how about the old stuff. Could the code book stop them from moving in? Thanks Dave

 

[roger]

`

In referring to dental offices, in looking in the 2008 NEC, wouldn't Article 517.10(B)
exclude the requirements of using HCF grade conductors in these types of
occupancies?

Thanks! :smile:

`

Read it closely, the section is referring to "business offices, corridors, waiting rooms and the like" in these facilities, it is not referring to the dental office building as a whole.

Could a dentist move into a building prewired in romex. All new ckts added would be to code but how about the old stuff. Could the code book stop them from moving in? Thanks Dave

That would be an issue for the state or local AHJ and licensing agency governing these types of businesses. Their insurance carrier might have something to say as well.

Roger

 

[kbsparky]

One of my customers is a dental practice. The whole place is wired with romex. About the only thing we do over there is replace ballasts, and other minor repairs.

There are a bunch of "medical" offices in that area, and AFAIK, they are all similarly wired. Built in the mid-1908's I believe.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Could a dentist move into a building prewired in romex. All new ckts added would be to code but how about the old stuff. Could the code book stop them from moving in? Thanks Dave

I just came across a similar situation yesterday. I was called out to an insurance company office that wants some additional wiring done. This office is in an old house that was re-zoned to commercial use. It has a dropped ceiling with numerous troffers installed, all wired in NM-B. The switch leg to the troffers is spliced to the original knob and tube so therefore lacks an EGC. They want me to bypass the K&T and install a new switch leg with an EGC. What does a guy do here? Tell them all the wiring in the dropped ceiling needs to be replaced? Just worry about the new wiring I install and leave the NM-B as is? I don't like walking into these type of situations.

 

[dcspector]

I just came across a similar situation yesterday. I was called out to an insurance company office that wants some additional wiring done. This office is in an old house that was re-zoned to commercial use. It has a dropped ceiling with numerous troffers installed, all wired in NM-B. The switch leg to the troffers is spliced to the original knob and tube so therefore lacks an EGC. They want me to bypass the K&T and install a new switch leg with an EGC. What does a guy do here? Tell them all the wiring in the dropped ceiling needs to be replaced? Just worry about the new wiring I install and leave the NM-B as is? I don't like walking into these type of situations.

Tom that is a tough situation. I would do what you have to do to make your installation safe and document the heck out of it on your invoice to cover your rear. Will there be an inspection?

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Will there be an inspection?

At this point, no. I'm still going to talk to the AHJ to see how he would handle this. I wonder when 334.12(2) was first added to the Code?

 

[RICK NAPIER]

In NJ we have the Uniform Construction Code (UCC) with a long chapter dealing with existing existing installations called the Rehab Code. In NJ if an office canges to space that is covered by 517 thay would have to change to conform with the NEC.

 

[dcspector]

At this point, no. I'm still going to talk to the AHJ to see how he would handle this. I wonder when 334.12(2) was first added to the Code?

Tom good idea. Also, looks like this came into the 2002 NEC 334.12(A)(1)