romex outside.

[tonyou812]

My buddy failed an instection last week because he had to get a circut up two floors on the outside of a house and he did it in romex. But he peeled off the outer sheathing on the romex so he wouldnt be putting" romex "outdoors (although its in pvc). but he still failed because the instpector thinks he is wrong by puting in outside where it is subject to "excessive moisture or dampness" 334.12 b. 4. Even though it was essentialy turned into thhn when it was stripped of its outer jacket. And thhn is good for damp locations as per 310.13 who is right ? If my friend is wrong than what about all the exterior lights out there wired in romex. Are they too wrong?

 

[augie47]

NM / damp locations

NM / damp locations

get comfortable, find a cool drink and begin reading here:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=78608&highlight=damp+location"

if thats not enough, search "NM damp location" This has been discussed/argued, etc. numerous times on this froum.

 

[LarryFine]

Even though it was essentialy turned into thhn when it was stripped of its outer jacket. And thhn is good for damp locations as per 310.13 who is right?

Your buddy is, if he can show the inspector two things:

1. The THHN markings on the conductors.

2. Where THHN is listed for wet locations.

If my friend is wrong than what about all the exterior lights out there wired in romex. Are they too wrong?

How many of these lights have NM really outside the structure exterior surface? (A few, actually.)

It's similar to exterior disconnects and panels, and you're correct, there seems to be some dichotomy.

I'm happy to take advantage of the accepted exceptions. Please don't make waves. :wink:

 

[raider1]

Even though it was essentialy turned into thhn when it was stripped of its outer jacket.

Conductors that are installed in a raceway need to be individually marked in accordance with 310.11. The conductors within NM cable that I have used are not individually marked.

And thhn is good for damp locations as per 310.13

A conduit on the outside of a house that is exposed to the weather is a wet location. (See location, Wet in Article 100)

Chris

 

[petersonra]

Location, Wet. Installations under ground or in concrete
slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations
subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such
as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed
to weather.

A porch light is often under a roof. How is that exposed to the weather?

Is an outdoor outlet under an eave exposed to the weather?

 

[tonyou812]

Thanks everyone, i should have put a little more reaserch into my question first. This site makes me a little lazy sometimes. Especially after a long day.

 

[iwire]

A porch light is often under a roof. How is that exposed to the weather?

Is an outdoor outlet under an eave exposed to the weather?

Not sure where it fits in this thread but the 'exposed to weather under an eve' question is a judgment call by the inspector.

Some inspectors have posted here they like to use about a 45 degree line from the outer edge of the eve to the wall.

Above where the line hits on the wall is damp below the line is wet.

That always seemed reasonable to me.

 

[raider1]

A porch light is often under a roof. How is that exposed to the weather?

I don't believe that it is exposed to the wheather if it is under a roof. Therefore it would be in a damp location.

Is an outdoor outlet under an eave exposed to the weather?

I don't believe that an outlet under an eave is exposed to weather either, but again it is in a damp location.

Some inspectors have posted here they like to use about a 45 degree line from the outer edge of the eve to the wall.

Above where the line hits on the wall is damp below the line is wet.

That always seemed reasonable to me.

I agree with iwire on how to determine if something is exposed to the weather.

Chris

 

[eagle263]

Are u sure it is thhn ,or is it thw?

 

[Cavie]

Thhn in romex is not duel rated thwn, or so I am told. Thwn is wet location. thhn is not. The thhn in romex has no markings therefor cannot be used.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Thhn in romex is not duel rated thwn, or so I am told. Thwn is wet location. thhn is not. The thhn in romex has no markings therefor cannot be used.

The problem is none of us know for sure what insulation is in romex. All we know is that it is 90C rated and we are told by the mfg. that it is thhn. Why don't they just mark the damn thing and save us all this headache.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Why don't they just mark the damn thing and save us all this headache.

I believe that it is not marked because of the ampacity limitations set forth in 334.80.

 

[Rockyd]

Raider's logic is perfect application of an AHJ who has a solid comprehension of all the variables in his region. I'm out here in the desert, and agree also for this region. Although we haven't met, he has inspected some of my work, and passed everytime. Nice working in a district like that where there are not a whole lot of "surprises".

Hey Chris, are you teaching in St. George, on the 17th? I have to do the 3 hour core class that day if you are.