roger3829
Senior Member
- Location
- Torrington, CT
I agree.
Not to mention the cost of them are just slightly higher than staples.:smile:
romex staples????????
- Thread starter mitch vanice
- Start date
- Status
I agree.
Not to mention the cost of them are just slightly higher than staples.:smile:
Hendrix
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Aw, c'mon, the're the best thing since sliced bread. :roll:
roger3829
Senior Member
- Location
- Torrington, CT
I use them when absolutly necessary.
I complain about how much them cost.
I complain about how bad they look.
slick 50
Senior Member
- Location
- 6 super bowl ring city
range cable staples
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Staple driven sideways, zip-tie around that and the cables.
I will use stack-its for more than four cables, as inspectors will accept that, but according to many manufacturers' instructions, it could still be considered bundling.
I will use stack-its for more than four cables, as inspectors will accept that, but according to many manufacturers' instructions, it could still be considered bundling.
I really like the way 3-M approachs that
it says something like when more than (4) 14s are used "consideration should be given to derating"..( I don't have a bag with me for exact wording).I always figured "I considered it and it wasn't necessary" :smile:
It is also interesting to note that the insructions say for (4) #12s.....
a limit ignored by most,
Doing the math on bundling and derating in 310.15(B)(2)(a), and ampacity for 90 degree conductors in Table 310.16 and I discover that we can bundle 4 cables of 14, 12 or 10 and still connect them to 15, 20 or 30 amp breakers. I assume copper conductors.
334.112 requires NM cables to be constructed with 90 degree conductors.
334.80 allows the ampacity of the 90 degree column to be used for ampacity derating provided the final derated ampacity does not exceed the 60 degree column.
310.16 shows an ampacity of 25, 30 and 40 amps respectively for 14, 12 and 10 AWG conductors in the 90 degree column, and 20, 25, and 30 amps in the 60 degree column.
240.4(D) limits general purpose small conductors to 15, 20 and 30 amperes respectively for 15, 12 and 30 AWG conductors after any correction factors for number of conductors has been applied.
Four NM cables have a total of 8 current carrying conductors, and Table 310.15(B)(2)(a) requires we derate to 70 percent.
Seventy percent of 25 is 17.5 amps for the 14 AWG; seventy percent of 30 is 21 amperes for the 12 AWG; and seventy percent of 40 is 28 amperes for the 10 AWG.
Per 240.4:
For the 14 AWG, bundled 4 cables, I am allowed to protect with a 15 amp CB.
For the 12 AWG, bundled 4 cables, I am allowed to protect with a 20 amp CB.
For the 10 AWG, bundled 4 cables, I am allowed to protect with a 25 amp breaker. But wait.
What about 240.4(B)? Assuming my 10 AWG conductors do not supply any multioutlet branch circuits (I typically have only one 30 amp receptacle for my dryer, and a separate 30 amp branch circuit for the water heater), I am allowed to protect my derated conductors with the next standard size of OC device (listed in 240.6). The next size higher than 28 amperes is 30 amperes. I am allowed to protect 10 AWG, bundled 4 cables with a 30 amp breaker.
In sum, I can use the values in 240.4(D) for the CB sizes for NM cables with a maximum of 4 cables bundled together. 14 AWG NM cables go on 15 amp breakers, 12s go on 20s and 10s go on 30s.
334.112 requires NM cables to be constructed with 90 degree conductors.
334.80 allows the ampacity of the 90 degree column to be used for ampacity derating provided the final derated ampacity does not exceed the 60 degree column.
310.16 shows an ampacity of 25, 30 and 40 amps respectively for 14, 12 and 10 AWG conductors in the 90 degree column, and 20, 25, and 30 amps in the 60 degree column.
240.4(D) limits general purpose small conductors to 15, 20 and 30 amperes respectively for 15, 12 and 30 AWG conductors after any correction factors for number of conductors has been applied.
Four NM cables have a total of 8 current carrying conductors, and Table 310.15(B)(2)(a) requires we derate to 70 percent.
Seventy percent of 25 is 17.5 amps for the 14 AWG; seventy percent of 30 is 21 amperes for the 12 AWG; and seventy percent of 40 is 28 amperes for the 10 AWG.
Per 240.4:
For the 14 AWG, bundled 4 cables, I am allowed to protect with a 15 amp CB.
For the 12 AWG, bundled 4 cables, I am allowed to protect with a 20 amp CB.
For the 10 AWG, bundled 4 cables, I am allowed to protect with a 25 amp breaker. But wait.
What about 240.4(B)? Assuming my 10 AWG conductors do not supply any multioutlet branch circuits (I typically have only one 30 amp receptacle for my dryer, and a separate 30 amp branch circuit for the water heater), I am allowed to protect my derated conductors with the next standard size of OC device (listed in 240.6). The next size higher than 28 amperes is 30 amperes. I am allowed to protect 10 AWG, bundled 4 cables with a 30 amp breaker.
In sum, I can use the values in 240.4(D) for the CB sizes for NM cables with a maximum of 4 cables bundled together. 14 AWG NM cables go on 15 amp breakers, 12s go on 20s and 10s go on 30s.
Jesse7623
Senior Member
- Location
- eastern Mass
Some are listed for 3-14/2 nm cables
MF Dagger
Senior Member
- Location
- Pig's Eye, MN
Both sides of the stud bay. When doing all my homeruns I just run a couple of two bys sideways to staple to. Makes it look neat and actually seems to make everything go quicker.
So how do you fasten NM to the stud opposite a device box according to 334.30?
mthead
Senior Member
- Location
- Long Beach,NY
romex staples????????
First let me say-"LL..,I think I've seen the back of your head before on an inspection...,That is you in the picture ,right?"
More importantly to the question at hand--i.e., methods of securing cable -in this case,RX staples.--What I found when working as an electrician and what is in mind now as an inspector-
you generally get called on an issue as simple as this when you a]have a relative lack of staples or other means of securing used at all at time of rough or b]you are using a "Range" staple -SEU/SER staple,2"BX staple..,etc..in an attempt to secure multiple NM cable runs [3,4,5 or more] under one staple.
I gotta say to you guys -why do you think the manufacturer has given the item a name of its own? It's an SEU staple because thats what it is to be used with--not because it can fit as much under it as a piece of #3SE cable.
More importantly there are less expensive and still code compliant ways to achieve the correct securing of cable runs.
And even more importantly than that is that this is one of the first things any inspector will see [proper install ,location,and securing of device boxes and wiring ]when he walks onto your job.
This can set the whole tone of how an inspector will look at your job that day and during the course of the project and at the final.
When I walk into a job that an elec has called to say was ready for a rough-and what I see is what could only generously be described as an apparent staple shortage,and wires run at angles from recpts to sw's so that they could not even be secured upon their exit and entrance from one box to another...,Do I need to go further as to not only what is going to happen next ..,and how I will approach future jobs done by this kind of electrician in the future?
I'll also tell you that an electrician who would think that this kind of rough should have any reason for existing should probably become a plumber-ther aren't that many drownings in residences but there are unfortunately to many things that everyone tries to pin on electric-we don't want to give them any help in that direction.
First let me say-"LL..,I think I've seen the back of your head before on an inspection...,That is you in the picture ,right?"
More importantly to the question at hand--i.e., methods of securing cable -in this case,RX staples.--What I found when working as an electrician and what is in mind now as an inspector-
you generally get called on an issue as simple as this when you a]have a relative lack of staples or other means of securing used at all at time of rough or b]you are using a "Range" staple -SEU/SER staple,2"BX staple..,etc..in an attempt to secure multiple NM cable runs [3,4,5 or more] under one staple.
I gotta say to you guys -why do you think the manufacturer has given the item a name of its own? It's an SEU staple because thats what it is to be used with--not because it can fit as much under it as a piece of #3SE cable.
More importantly there are less expensive and still code compliant ways to achieve the correct securing of cable runs.
And even more importantly than that is that this is one of the first things any inspector will see [proper install ,location,and securing of device boxes and wiring ]when he walks onto your job.
This can set the whole tone of how an inspector will look at your job that day and during the course of the project and at the final.
When I walk into a job that an elec has called to say was ready for a rough-and what I see is what could only generously be described as an apparent staple shortage,and wires run at angles from recpts to sw's so that they could not even be secured upon their exit and entrance from one box to another...,Do I need to go further as to not only what is going to happen next ..,and how I will approach future jobs done by this kind of electrician in the future?
I'll also tell you that an electrician who would think that this kind of rough should have any reason for existing should probably become a plumber-ther aren't that many drownings in residences but there are unfortunately to many things that everyone tries to pin on electric-we don't want to give them any help in that direction.
slick 50
Senior Member
- Location
- 6 super bowl ring city
Nothing wrong with using bigger staples. Secures wires great and looks great. Never had a problem from any inspector from any area. In fact, some compliment how good they look and how neat the job is.......No Problem
MF Dagger
Senior Member
- Location
- Pig's Eye, MN
Come down that side and go back up the other stud from the bottom if I need to. It's rarely too much of a problem for me honestly. A little forward thinking can avoid the issue most of the time for me.
That's a total waste of time and material, IMPO. Stack staples are legal, and when installed properly pose no problems. Besides, once the rock goes up, who cares what it looks (looked?) like.
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