romex stapling

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Vinniem

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Running new circuits to a panel in a finished basement.

Room has a drop ceiling.

Is it permissable to staple my wire to the bottom of the floor joists, or do I have to drill each joist?
 
LarryFine said:
It is permissable.
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Is there a particular code reference that allows it, or is this just because it isn't subject to physical damage (300.4) and isn't an unfinished basement (334.15.C)??
 
tallguy said:
Is there a particular code reference that allows it, or is this just because it isn't subject to physical damage (300.4) and isn't an unfinished basement (334.15.C)??
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I always was not quiet sure on that one either. So if you wanted to run 14-2s 14-3 s and 10-2s romex in a finished basement with the suspended ceiling you could just strap them to the bottom of the joists instead of drilling them?
 
codeunderstanding said:
I always was not quiet sure on that one either. So if you wanted to run 14-2s 14-3 s and 10-2s romex in a finished basement with the suspended ceiling you could just strap them to the bottom of the joists instead of drilling them?
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I've had an inspector go one better than that... I had strapping going perpendicular to the joists and my predecessors had just laid the NM in between the straps --- completely unsecured, no staples, resting on the ceiling tiles.

As part of the remodel the 100A subpanel was replaced, so I drilled through all the joists and re-routed the cables accordingly prior to ceiling replacement with sheetrock. On rough the inspector says "why did you bother boring out all those holes? You could have just left it between the strapping" :mad:

To me that is ridiculous... Anyone driving a screw into the ceiling (why would they do this, I don't know -- but that's what the 1-1/4" rule is for) who misses the strapping could go right into the NM. Maybe AHJ would allow it, but I wouldn't do it.
 
tallguy said:
Is there a particular code reference that allows it, or is this just because it isn't subject to physical damage (300.4) and isn't an unfinished basement (334.15.C)??
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The op is asking about a finished basement. IMO the ceiling tiles are now the finished ceiling so the wiring up above does not have to be drilled and can be run in any fashion as long as they are stapled properly.
 
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Dennis Alwon said:
The op is asking about a finished basement. IMO the ceiling tiles are now the finished ceiling so the wiring up above does not have to be drilled and can be run in any fashion as long as they are stapled properly.
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I agree. The underside of the joist prohibition is to protect the cable from someone hanging something on it. Once it's above the ceiling it may be stapled to the underside of the floor joists above.
 
like trevor said its protecting it from people from hanging stuff off the wires. but why is it that wire size 8/3 or 6/2 or lager u can staple tose cables under the joists without drilling holes, it doesnt make sense. u still can hang stuff off those wires?
 
cloudymacleod said:
like trevor said its protecting it from people from hanging stuff off the wires. but why is it that wire size 8/3 or 6/2 or lager u can staple tose cables under the joists without drilling holes, it doesnt make sense. u still can hang stuff off those wires?
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Given the fact that those wires are larger they would be much less likely to be damaged from something hanging on them, especially if they were stapled to every joist.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The op is asking about a finished basement. IMO the ceiling tiles are now the finished ceiling so the wiring up above does not have to be drilled and can be run in any fashion as long as they are stapled properly.
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For that matter, does the cable even have to be stapled? Isn't the cable supported by the ceiling grid every 2-4 feet?

This is just a question, not a proclamation of my own workmanship.
 
jaylectricity said:
For that matter, does the cable even have to be stapled? Isn't the cable supported by the ceiling grid every 2-4 feet?

This is just a question, not a proclamation of my own workmanship.
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I shoot people who leave wires on the top of the grids. :smile:

No, it's not supported because I doubt the grid is listed for that purpose. (Try running a couple dozen 4" rigids full of copper on a grid and see how long that lasts!)
 
jaylectricity said:
For that matter, does the cable even have to be stapled? Isn't the cable supported by the ceiling grid every 2-4 feet?

This is just a question, not a proclamation of my own workmanship.
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I am glad it is not a proclamation of your workmanship. Art. 300.4(C) tells us that cables behind panels designed to allow access shall be supported by their applicable articles. I think you will find that art.334 will not allow nm to be supported by the ceiling grid.
 
480sparky said:
(Try running a couple dozen 4" rigids full of copper on a grid and see how long that lasts!)
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Haha...I see what you guys mean...I wasn't even thinking of the word support and how it would apply to other wiring methods laying on a ceiling grid.
 
The only thing worse than using the grid to lay your wire on is using the tops of the tile as a place to put your trash.... wire clippings, soda cans, ciggy butts....:mad:
 
480sparky said:
The only thing worse than using the grid to lay your wire on is using the tops of the tile as a place to put your trash.... wire clippings, soda cans, ciggy butts....:mad:
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What about a recessed can that is totally supported by the tile? I hate that--- or a little better but still not right is when they use the same bars that come with the can and extend the brackets to lay on the grid.

Heck I have even seen track light supported by the tile with toggle bolts.
 
480sparky said:
The only thing worse than using the grid to lay your wire on is using the tops of the tile as a place to put your trash.... wire clippings, soda cans, ciggy butts....:mad:
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Agreed. Of course, I don't smoke so I hate a lot of those kind of habits. But soda cans? Find a trash can!
 
Dennis Alwon said:
. . . or a little better but still not right is when they use the same bars that come with the can and extend the brackets to lay on the grid.
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Some people don't know it, but the nail-ends of those bars are designed to fit on T-bars.
 
stickboy1375 said:
I did, but is the grid designed to support the light still? i think not, and I that is what Dennis is mad about...
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Actually I did not know about that those bars were designed for the grid. Are we talking about the H7 Halo cans???

I was thinking of the old style bars on the Halo that were just resting on the top of the grid.
 
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