Romex: two whites and a black

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ohm

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Birmingham, AL
I came across some 12-3 w/ #12g romex that had two whites and a ground. Also 12-3 w/g that had two blacks and a white. The outer sheaths were beige and the wire & sheaths were themoplastic. Sure made a simple remodel fun!

The owner said the house was built in the mid-60's.

Anyone seen the same?
 
ohm said:
I came across some 12-3 w/ #12g romex that had two whites and a ground. Also 12-3 w/g that had two blacks and a white. The outer sheaths were beige and the wire & sheaths were themoplastic. Sure made a simple remodel fun!

The owner said the house was built in the mid-60's.

Anyone seen the same?
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I have seen some old romex that used a gray wire as a neutral but I have never seen 2 whites. Are you sure they aren't miscolored.
 
Probably just faded.


I remember seeing 14/3 with black white and purple in the 90's.

I also remember breifly seeing non twisted 3 wire romex with no friggin paper or plastic in it. That was the best thing to come along in YEARS....but it diasappeared. I wonder how many hours I have wasted untwisting 3 wire cable??
 
220/221 said:
I also remember breifly seeing non twisted 3 wire romex with no friggin paper or plastic in it. That was the best thing to come along in YEARS....but it diasappeared. I wonder how many hours I have wasted untwisting 3 wire cable??
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'

All the NM cable manufacturers are making parallel 3 wire cable now, but not the 4 wire or 2/2 stuff.
 
I've skinned romex before that was made with 2 whites, but the one white had a thin skin of some sort to color it black. Sorta like the clear nylon covering on THHN, but black.
 
mdshunk said:
I've skinned romex before that was made with 2 whites, but the one white had a thin skin of some sort to color it black. Sorta like the clear nylon covering on THHN, but black.
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Yeah, the company that does it that way is United Copper Industries. I think they do the same thing with their THHN too. All the other major wire companies use solid colored insulation.
 
I have run across rolls on NM where the black was more of a gray and a roll of 14/4 NM where the red was a light pink. Had to have decent light to tell it from the white.

Gene

___________________________________

Remember - Speed Kills and it may not always be you.
 
Ebow said:
I have run across rolls on NM where the black was more of a gray and a roll of 14/4 NM where the red was a light pink. Had to have decent light to tell it from the white.
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Oh, yeah. I ended up with a 1000' spool of 14-2 like that, and it was miserable to use. Grey and white, and in dim light, they both looked darned near the same. If I didn't already have much of it pulled before I started to terminate it, I'd have taken it back.
 
peter d said:
Yeah, the company that does it that way is United Copper Industries. I think they do the same thing with their THHN too. All the other major wire companies use solid colored insulation.
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Thinking about this some more, I wonder if they use the white base with the color sleeve over it to reveal damage to the insulation during the pulling or installing process?
 
peter d said:
Thinking about this some more, I wonder if they use the white base with the color sleeve over it to reveal damage to the insulation during the pulling or installing process?
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Don't overthink this. Manufacturers only do strange things to save money.
 
mdshunk said:
Manufacturers only do strange things to save money.
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What a disappointment. I like to think they also do strange stuff to drive us batty.
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jayrad1122 said:
I just came across some 10/3 romex yesterday that didn't have a ground:-?
Didn't know they made that.
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Very popular for old dryer circuits, and I've even seen it paralleled for serving ranges.


Yes, paralleled.


On a 50a breaker.
 
jayrad1122 said:
I just came across some 10/3 romex yesterday that didn't have a ground:-?
Didn't know they made that.
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Pretty much all old NM cable prior to the 1960's (somewhere in that area....that was long before I was born) had no ground wire. In the 1960's fabric sheathed NM cable with the reduced ground wire was very common, and then the plastic sheathed NM cable with full size ground came to fruition in the late 60's -early 70's.

I'm basing this solely off of "detective work" I've done on many old houses I've worked on.
 
LarryFine said:
Very popular for old dryer circuits, and I've even seen it paralleled for serving ranges.


Yes, paralleled.


On a 50a breaker.
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And it was for the dryer! :cool:

Maybe they thought 30 amps plus 30 amps equal 60 amps so two 10s should definitely be good on a 50A breaker.:-? :D
 
electricalperson said:
did it work alright or was there signs of overheating?
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I've never seen any sign of any problem, outside of the NEC, of course.

It's a real bummer doing a service change. You can't leave them paralleled, and you can't split them onto separate breakers.

Unless the other end supplies two appliances, and you split them at the load ends, one appliance each.
 
I recently encountered some romex with two whites & one black, but no ground. I had never seen it before. Upon closer inspection I realized that it was not an obscure product line but rather some hack getting inventive. Apparently he did not have any 3-wire on the van, so he made his own!! He stripped a piece of white wire and carefully slid the insulation over the ground wire. The two whites were travellers for a 3-way switch. Didn't need that pesky ground anyway!
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