romex

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Supersparky98

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I am bidding a hotel listed as class V construction(which is all wood frame), i am having trouble with the 2 story clause on romex being allowed.
 
Article 334.10. There is no 2 story clause

Type NM, Type NMC, and Type NMS cables shall be permitted to be used in the following:
(1) One- and two-family dwellings.
(2) Multifamily dwellings permitted to be of Types III, IV, and V construction except as prohibited in 334.12.
(3) Other structures permitted to be of Types III, IV, and V construction except as prohibited in 334.12. Cables shall be concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of material that has at least a 15-minute finish rating as identified in listings of fire-rated assemblies.
FPN No. 1: Types of building construction and occupancy classifications are defined in NFPA 220-2006, Standard on Types of Building Construction, or the applicable building code, or both.
FPN No. 2: See Annex E for determination of building types [NFPA 220, Table 3-1].
(4) Cable trays in structures permitted to be Types III, IV, or V where the cables are identified for the use.
FPN: See 310.10 for temperature limitation of conductors.
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So from what I am gathering from annex E is that you basically can use romex as long as it is protected by a fire rated material such as sheetrock
 
fireryan said:
So from what I am gathering from annex E is that you basically can use romex as long as it is protected by a fire rated material such as sheetrock
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No, I don't think so. It depends on the fire rating of the building. Types I and Types II can will have sheetrock but it will also have a different type of construction which will prohibit nm cable

The five different types of construction can be summarized briefly as follows (see also Table E.2):
Type I is a Fire-Resistive construction type. All structural elements and most interior elements are required to be noncombustible. Interior, nonbearing partitions are permitted to be 1 or 2 hour rated. For nearly all occupancy types, Type I construction can be of unlimited height.
Type II construction has 3 categories: Fire-Resistive, One-Hour Rated, and Non-Rated. The number of stories permitted for multifamily dwellings varies from two for Non-Rated and four for One-Hour Rated to 12 for Fire-Resistive construction.
Type III construction has two categories: One-Hour Rated and Non-Rated. Both categories require the structural framework and exterior walls to be of noncombustible material. One-Hour Rated construction requires all interior partitions to be one-hour rated. Non-Rated construction allows nonbearing interior partitions to be of non-rated construction. The maximum permitted number of stories for multifamily dwellings and other structures is two for Non-Rated and four for One-Hour Rated.
Type IV is a single construction category that provides for heavy timber construction. Both the structural framework and the exterior walls are required to be noncombustible except that wood members of certain minimum sizes are allowed. This construction type is seldom used for multifamily dwellings but, if used, would be permitted to be four stories high.
Type V construction has two categories: One-Hour Rated and Non-Rated. One-Hour Rated construction requires a minimum of one-hour rated construction throughout the building. Non-rated construction allows non-rated interior partitions with certain restrictions. The maximum permitted number of stories for multifamily dwellings and other structures is 2 for Non-Rated and 3 for One-Hour Rated.
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Basically Yes and No, as always check with your local AHJ for more details before simply bidding a job and finding out differently on your locality. But, if the construction type is III,IV or V and you are aware of the statements in 334.12 then it would not prohibit it.

Again, always check with your local AHJ ( This is not the inspector, but the building official )

As Dennis has stated....Type I & II would prohibit it. However, if the locality determined that the building would have been classified as III,IV or V and they choose ( by their own free will and not because of other requiring issues ) to do it as Type I or II then possibly NM would be allowed.
 
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I had a dream last night in which I roped a restaurant in romex.

I was done stringing the romex when I realized "Crap. This is commercial work and I can't use romex!"

Until I started reading the electrical message boards I didn't realize that romex was allowed anywhere except residential.
 
NYS has a clause that Places of Public Assembly is 50 people. That may affect certain parts of hotels with building types of II, IV, and V.
I was pointing out that there are also other considerations other than just building Types.

Also, a lot of the hotels are designing hotels in building Type III, IV and V, as it reduces the costs of building.

I am inspecting a Hampton Inn that is built just this way, with NM Cable.
 
You might verify what your State of Louisiana electrical code says. It seems that a lot of states are writing different rules for Type NM cable. Indiana (on page 4 & 5) has changed their rules quite a bit. :)
 
charlie said:
You might verify what your State of Louisiana electrical code says. It seems that a lot of states are writing different rules for Type NM cable. Indiana (on page 4 & 5) has changed their rules quite a bit. :)
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NM is great for tieing ladders and temp lights for anything else it is simply the min you can get away with. It is the bottom of the food chain ,if building a new home for your family do you really want it ?
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
NM is great for tieing ladders and temp lights for anything else it is simply the min you can get away with. It is the bottom of the food chain ,if building a new home for your family do you really want it ?
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Yes. Properly installed NM is as safe and functional as any wiring system in a home. There are millions of miles of it in homes all over the world. It works just fine.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
NM is great for tieing ladders and temp lights for anything else it is simply the min you can get away with. It is the bottom of the food chain ,if building a new home for your family do you really want it ?
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Why would you 'want' to rope a house in MC, or FMC, or pipe even for that matter? I dont understand the people that have something against romex, like its lamp cord or something.

~Matt
 
iaov said:
Yes. Properly installed NM is as safe and functional as any wiring system in a home. There are millions of miles of it in homes all over the world. It works just fine.
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Agreed, I put it is my home when I was actually working in the trade. It always worked well and never caused any problems. It is always important to handle it correctly when installing it and it will not be a problem. The only problem I have with the home I am in now is the dearth of receptacle outlets . . . period. :smile:
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
NM is great for tieing ladders and temp lights for anything else it is simply the min you can get away with. It is the bottom of the food chain ,if building a new home for your family do you really want it ?
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Thankfully you're just a lone voice howling in the wilderness that nobody is listening to.

As for me, I'm fine with K&T and 2-wire romex. :) The only wiring method I consider truly dangerous and a candidate for complete removal if possible is the old unbonded BX cable.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
NM is great for tieing ladders and temp lights for anything else it is simply the min you can get away with. It is the bottom of the food chain ,if building a new home for your family do you really want it ?
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I've read some stupid statements in this forum, most were probably my own. This ignorant statement takes it to a whole new level. Jim, you never disapoint.
 
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