Roof workers required to be trainees

[JoeNorm]

Since the solar racking is part of the grounding system(pretty much the standard now) these days we have been told that every part of the solar job, including installing racking and panels is electrical work, therefore requiring the proper licensing and supervision. Is this common elsewhere?

While technically correct, I cannot see how bigger commercial jobs can be feasible if there needs to be a 1:1 ratio of roof worker to 01 Journeyman.
Are inspectors just looking the other way on this? Or do places(I'm thinking California) have exceptions that allow panel installer leeway.

 

[pv_n00b]

It depends on the location. I remember years ago when Massachusetts was requiring licensed electricians to do the roof work and it was the talk of the industry that other states would try this.

 

[electrofelon]

It depends on the location. I remember years ago when Massachusetts was requiring licensed electricians to do the roof work and it was the talk of the industry that other states would try this.

I remember some past discussions about MA where electricians are hauling ballast blocks . I was doing utility scale solar for a while and on the ground mounts the racking company would install the modules. That wouldn't fly in MA. Stupid IMO. Reminds me of a while back in Washington state a ballot measure was put forth to allow selling of wine and liquor in grocery stores. It passed. Prior to that liquor stores were state run and the cashier's were government employees with pensions and benefits. What a waste.

 

[Joe.B]

I don't know if this exactly applies to your question, but CA has a law that allows general contractors to install solar...

 

[jaggedben]

I think it's debatable whether solar racking systems - or more precisely, which parts of solar racking systems - are part of the grounding system. For example installing attachments and flashings on a roof, or installing pipe piers on a ground mount, those initial tasks of a solar system arguably require skills that electricians aren't necessarily trained in, and don't require skills that are unique to electricians. Once you get to attaching grounding lugs and solar panels themselves, then it can definitely be claimed as electricians work. The in-between stuff is a grey area. As far as I ever heard, MA is the only state where anyone tries to argue otherwise.

Years ago I heard (from people who were there) about a multi-building solar project in St. Louis that was initially contracted with an understanding that the electricians union would perform all the work. A couple weeks into the project, the electricians were complaining so much about doing the roofing and racking work, they didn't even want to do it any more. The company was able to bring in the carpenters union for the portion of the work up to and including installing the rails. And the speed and quality improved.

I also once worked on a prevailing-wage project where for the initial ground-mount phases I got paid a concrete-mason's wage, and then I got paid an iron-workers wage, and then I got rotated off the project just before we got to the parts where I would have been paid an electrician's wage. I found out a little later about that and was a little annoyed.

As far as the legality, what others said. It varies from state to state.

 

[jaggedben]

I don't know if this exactly applies to your question, but CA has a law that allows general contractors to install solar...

It wasn't written with that intention, but it's been interpreted that since solar requires two unrelated specialty trades that B contractors can do it. (Does it always? Hard to argue otherwise for most projects. Say, roofer and electrician in most cases.)

 

[pv_n00b]

I remember some past discussions about MA where electricians are hauling ballast blocks . I was doing utility scale solar for a while and on the ground mounts the racking company would install the modules. That wouldn't fly in MA. Stupid IMO. Reminds me of a while back in Washington state a ballot measure was put forth to allow selling of wine and liquor in grocery stores. It passed. Prior to that liquor stores were state run and the cashier's were government employees with pensions and benefits. What a waste.

If I remember right the MA laws that had electricians up on roofs came at a time when there was higher than normal unemployment in the trades and it was an attempt to generate jobs for electricians. The problem was that few electricians wanted to work on roofs so it made it very hard to get people to do the work, high unemployment or not. I have often seen electrical unions push laws that limit what work can be done in PV by non-electricians. I can't blame them, that's what they are paid to do, but it makes it hard on the PV industry.

 

[kwired]

Since the solar racking is part of the grounding system(pretty much the standard now) these days we have been told that every part of the solar job, including installing racking and panels is electrical work, therefore requiring the proper licensing and supervision. Is this common elsewhere?

While technically correct, I cannot see how bigger commercial jobs can be feasible if there needs to be a 1:1 ratio of roof worker to 01 Journeyman.
Are inspectors just looking the other way on this? Or do places(I'm thinking California) have exceptions that allow panel installer leeway.

Guess electricians need to build the roof and the structure under it as well since they support the PV system. - Now we put many framers and other construction trades out of a job.

If you want to limit it to grounding/bonding issues being the reason - electricians need to be installing the rebar in footings, installing structural steel, and any metallic piping systems that are required to be bonded.