round house neutral under load

[ptonsparky]

Exactly! With that in mind, I find it ridiculous that we now need a GFCI breaker to power the line for a hard-wired dishwasher. Same goes for GFI protection for the outlet in the garage ceiling for a door opener, laundry outlet when not near a sink and hidden behind the appliances, or receptacles in an unfinished basement for sump pumps, HVAC equipment, or water heater motors. Single non-GFI receptacles for each of these items should suffice, as they have for decades without problems.

That all works IF the equipment ground is intact. Even then the EG could easily see in excess of 15 or 20 amp without a standard CB tripping. The load itself may not be operating as intended, but the CB could care less if the current is flowing line to neutral or line to equipment ground.

I thought it odd that they include Garage Door openers, until a customer had one that would trip his GFCI. First for me but obviously not the first for others.

 

[kwired]

Exactly! With that in mind, I find it ridiculous that we now need a GFCI breaker to power the line for a hard-wired dishwasher. Same goes for GFI protection for the outlet in the garage ceiling for a door opener, laundry outlet when not near a sink and hidden behind the appliances, or receptacles in an unfinished basement for sump pumps, HVAC equipment, or water heater motors. Single non-GFI receptacles for each of these items should suffice, as they have for decades without problems.

Dishwasher was one of the most ridiculous ones - it wasn't even triggered by shock hazards - it was certain units that were prone to catching on fire - was discovered a GFCI would trip before those units got to the catching on fire point. Seems to me that should have been taken care of with a product recall and not a band-aid from NEC.

Garage ceiling - I can understand and have seen good reason to do so - users figure out that outlet don't trip like the others and will run an extension cord from there to items they are using in the garage, same with when they allowed dedicated outlets in certain areas with no GFCI protection when other "general use" outlets needed GFCI. Unfortunately those that were excepted were supplying the sump pumps, HVAC equipment, but people abused the exception. Drinking fountain I don't feel needed GFCI either. Yes it has water in it, but this isn't the kind of thing that gets unplugged frequently and I bet not too many have missing EGC pins on the cord.

 

[jeff48356]

Dishwasher was one of the most ridiculous ones - it wasn't even triggered by shock hazards - it was certain units that were prone to catching on fire - was discovered a GFCI would trip before those units got to the catching on fire point. Seems to me that should have been taken care of with a product recall and not a band-aid from NEC.

The only brand known to catch fire was none other than G.E. Probably due to a bunch of outsourced crap made in China. "G.E., we bring bad things to life!"

 

[kwired]

The only brand known to catch fire was none other than G.E.

Even more reason product recall should have been the answer to the problem, and not a code change. Does a lot of good to those consumers that put one of those units on an existing branch circuit that had no GFCI protection.