Rudimentary questions.... i'm new.... please be gentle....

jaggedben said:
You don't really want to dump your home battery into the car if you're running off grid. Most likely your car will have enough charge to leave town in an emergency, and you'll want to use the home battery for the home.
Put the fast charger on a non-backed up circuit, and don't plug the car into a backed up slow charging circuit unless you really intend to when already off-grid.

Depending on the design details you can usually have the battery monitor your whole house usage to supply energy to non-backed up loads during normal on-grid operation.
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an EV would not be the first choice, the jeep would be in an awchit moment. it carries enough fuel, food, clothes and shelter for two people for two weeks, anywhere in north america. unless of course, being a jeep, it decides to fail. but with the fuel in it right. now, i could on backroads, get to the mojave basin in about two hours, without a freeway. once there, i'm in my home turf, and without a refill, could go to arizona, utah, or mexico, offroad. or with one or maybe two refills, canada. range offroad as it sits is about 750 miles.
 
Fulthrotl said:
an EV would not be the first choice, the jeep would be in an awchit moment.
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Cars.com published a list of bidirectional vehicles last year​

Jeep Wrangler 4xe​

jeep wrangler 20th anniversary rubicon 4xe 2023 10 exterior offroad front angle scaled jpg
2023 Jeep Wrangler 20th Anniversary Rubicon 4xe | Cars.com photo by Corey Watts
The plug-in hybrid drivetrain on the popular Jeep Wrangler 4xe isn’t just for saving a few bucks at the pump. The Wrangler 4xe’s V2L capabilities are unlocked via the Mopar Power Box, the name for what is essentially a cluster of four 120-volt outlets running off the Wrangler’s charge port. The Power Box features three modes: Battery Mode pulls V2L power directly from the battery, utilizing whatever charge is present at the time. Campers and overlanders looking for extended smoothie-blending sessions and juice for their air purifiers might opt for Generator Mode, which keeps the engine running to power both the battery and the Power Box, and aims to keep the battery at maximum charge. Blended Mode is the best of both worlds, cycling the gas engine efficiently to keep enough charge in the battery for any load from the Power Box.
 
jaggedben said:
Key word 'expecting'. No actual products mentioned on that page.

I think it will be here within the next five years, but that's what I thought 5 years ago.
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Here is a more comprehensive list of bidirectional vehicles available in the US

Which EVs offer bidirectional charging?​

As of 2025, only certain EVs sold in the US offer any form of bidirectional charging, though more are expected to be on the road in 2026. They will include:

  • Ford F-150 Lightning (V2G)
  • Cadillac Lyriq
  • Cadillac Escalade
  • Cadillac Optiq
  • Chevrolet Silverado EV RST
  • Chevrolet Blazer EV
  • Chevrolet Equinox EV
  • GMC Sierra EV Denali Edition 1
  • Genesis GV60 (V2L)
  • Hyundai Ioniq 5 (V2L)
  • Hyundai Ioniq 6 (V2L)
  • Hyundai Ioniq 9
  • Kia EV6 (V2L)
  • Kia EV9
  • Kia Soul EV
  • Kia Niro (V2L)
  • Lucid Air
  • Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (V2L)
  • Nissan Leaf (V2H, V2G)
  • Volkswagon ID.4 (V2H)
  • Volvo Polestar 3 (V2G)
  • Volvo Polestar 4
  • Tesla Cybertruck (V2L)
 
ramsy said:
Here is a more comprehensive list of bidirectional vehicles available in the US

Which EVs offer bidirectional charging?​

As of 2025, only certain EVs sold in the US offer any form of bidirectional charging, though more are expected to be on the road in 2026. They will include:

  • Ford F-150 Lightning (V2G)
  • Cadillac Lyriq
  • Cadillac Escalade
  • Cadillac Optiq
  • Chevrolet Silverado EV RST
  • Chevrolet Blazer EV
  • Chevrolet Equinox EV
  • GMC Sierra EV Denali Edition 1
  • Genesis GV60 (V2L)
  • Hyundai Ioniq 5 (V2L)
  • Hyundai Ioniq 6 (V2L)
  • Hyundai Ioniq 9
  • Kia EV6 (V2L)
  • Kia EV9
  • Kia Soul EV
  • Kia Niro (V2L)
  • Lucid Air
  • Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (V2L)
  • Nissan Leaf (V2H, V2G)
  • Volkswagon ID.4 (V2H)
  • Volvo Polestar 3 (V2G)
  • Volvo Polestar 4
  • Tesla Cybertruck (V2L)
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Yeah so that list is kindof BS. Let's get real.

A lot of those that say 'V2L' just means they have one or more 15A 120V outlets you can plug an extension cord into to power a plug-in load. You can hook these up to a 120V manual-transfer generator panel, of course, which is far from a terrible idea, but is not going to run a large portion of a large home, (and some of those V2L outputs will probably trip their GFCI). But what you canNOT do with these is integrate them into your home solar+battery storage system. That is, you cannot do things like charge the car specifically from excess solar and then automatically shift to having the car power the home as the sun goes down. The Enphase offering will be able to do that when it comes to market.

Calling V2L 'bidirectional' is a misnomer in as far as the EVSE is not bidirectional, and if you want to switch directions you need plug in a different cord and manage it yourself, and the amps and volts change. It can't go either direction in a single configuration.

Then there's my skepticism that some of the cars listed as V2H or V2G can actually do that for the mass market, or for the US. For example I couldn't readily find any info that the Volvo Polestar 3 actually supports this yet, just a promise that it will. I was aware that the Nissan Leaf (which year?) supports it in Japan but not the US. Then there's the utility interconnection requirements for V2G or grid tied V2H; some of those cars may have pilot V2H/G programs in other countries but I'm only aware of a couple here. As I said, the Ford is the only one I fully believe. GM had a pilot program but it was a partnership with Sunpower, which went bankrupt, so I think that program is currently dead.

So, I take the entire list (except Ford) with a grain of salt. Show me manufacturer documentation instead of a random webpage. So much BS marketing hype out there.
 
ramsy said:

Jeep Wrangler 4xe​

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uh, no. hell, no.

i own a jeep. i'm not a jeep fan at this point.
why? because i own a jeep. no way in hell would
i ever buy another jeep, ever. there have been three
catastrophic failures of that POS since new years eve.
my wife will no longer travel to any remote area in it,
and i honestly can't fault her logic.

a simple camping vacation in the jeep resembles hostage
negotiation with a terrorist more than anything else.
when the recovery service helping you makes a youtube
video about your vacation, it's time to reconsider.

keeping to the original intent of the thread, it was
"what is the cool stuff you like on your PV builds?"

it wasn't "how can i implement plugging in an EV
i don't have, and don't want to power my house".

so, what i was looking for from the guys who install
this stuff was.....

"what PV's, inverters, racks, and hardware do you really like?"

what's gonna happen is i'm gonna hang as many PV's on the
back of my house as i can conveniently fit there, so the front
of my house doesn't look ugly as fork, and see about how many
KW of batteries i need to last a little while.
 
jaggedben said:
Then there's the utility interconnection requirements for V2G or grid tied V2H; some of those cars may have pilot V2H/G programs in other countries but I'm only aware of a couple here. As I said, the Ford is the only one
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Looks like TESLA power share does what you expect.

Rivian Announced a 24kw V2H last year.

Other brands may be watching demand for TESLA power share.
 
I am planning my own and have the same questions. For a self install not looking for the cheapest, what's a good brand for panels, inverters, roof penetrations. What is the smart play (brand names) for money well spent including, service support longevity, no issues.

I thought I was locked in at .11 / kwh. But the legislature added a public benefit change that tripled the bill. My bill / my kwh is now .37 / kwh. I could not believe it. Cheaper to put unleaded in the Tundra than charge a Tesla.
 
__dan said:
My bill / my kwh is now .37 / kwh. I could not believe it. Cheaper to put unleaded in the Tundra than charge a Tesla.
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Oh? Let's be generous and say the Tesla gets only 3.0 mi/kWh, while the Tundra gets a full 20 mpg. So 20 miles on the Tesla costs 20*0.37/3.0 = $2.47. You're paying less than that for a gallon of unleaded gas?

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
Oh? Let's be generous and say the Tesla gets only 3.0 mi/kWh, while the Tundra gets a full 20 mpg. So 20 miles on the Tesla costs 20*0.37/3.0 = $2.47. You're paying less than that for a gallon of unleaded gas?

Cheers, Wayne
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Yes, as I did the numbers the gallon gas equivalent was in the same ballpark, 2.47 is pretty close to 2.99 where it's today.

At .11 / kwh I was looking at $10k in gas savings on the commute which justified it. At .37 / kwh it's close to unleaded cost in a Tundra.

New Tundra SR model is about $40k and I would have some truck stuff for it to do. Model Y is $50k. The Tundra plus $10K in unleaded, which is 10 years on my commute, is about the model Y cost before filling the battery. Still want to do it but the gas savings are gone.

Cannot believe the legislature did that, tripled the bill. The scale of working poor people on electric heat is massive, are all getting robbed massively.
 
jaggedben said:
Yeah so that list is kindof BS. Let's get real.


So, I take the entire list (except Ford) with a grain of salt. Show me manufacturer documentation instead of a random webpage. So much BS marketing hype out there.
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Even the Ford setup is wonky. It requires an extra $10K or more in proprietary equipment and less than 50% of people who ponied up have a working system. And many of those “working” require manual intervention to get it to function in case of a power outage. Ford has bought back trucks and refunded the system cost to some buyers because of this.

You are correct - there is no scenario where you can buy a currently in-production EV and a so-called “bidirectional charger” and just plug them together and get V2H or V2G.
 
Fulthrotl said:
keeping to the original intent of the thread, it was
"what is the cool stuff you like on your PV builds?"

it wasn't "how can i implement plugging in an EV
i don't have, and don't want to power my house".
Click to expand...
But where is the fun in answering the original question when we can argue about a tangent?!?

Seriously: I'm also interested in 'what do the professional installers put on their own homes?'

What are the non-obvious gotchas that make a huge difference. ( I'm thinking rapid shutdown, DC/AC ratio and setback requirements).

What are cool incremental improvements?

Jonathan
 
ramsy said:
I thought 3-Phase EVSE can suck your car battery dry at will, regardless of EV type.

I believe fermataenergy.com provided V2B firmware since 2000, with the first UL 9741 / 1741 V2G certification in 2023
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SAE J3072 defines the interface protocol used for V2x transfer and was (I think) incorporated into UL 9741. There are currently no passenger vehicles sold in the U.S. capable of using that interface. Maybe you can get speciality (commercial) EVs that do, such as electric school buses?

I haven’t read J3072, but I have to believe that the communications protocol will include parameters such as max discharge rate, and minimum state of charge…..there will be no “sucking batteries dry.”
 
retirede said:
Even the Ford setup is wonky. It requires an extra $10K or more in proprietary equipment and less than 50% of people who ponied up have a working system. And many of those “working” require manual intervention to get it to function in case of a power outage. Ford has bought back trucks and refunded the system cost to some buyers because of this.
Click to expand...
That's the DC based abomination called the Home Integration System destined for class action. Ford also offers the much easier to use and reliable AC based Pro Power OnBoard option that provides 9.6kW 240VAC split-phase power that's plug and play V2L/V2H via NEMA 15-20 and 14-30 outlets. Tesla Cybertruck also has a similar offering.
 
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