Run MC cable inside the ENT (Smurf Tube)

NEC Inspector said:
You may also double check that the locals actually do have jurisdiction, a in lot of places HUD or state requirements preempt local jurisdictions for manufactured homes.
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Around here a mfg home that is modified is required to meet typical NEC requirements and exemptions allowed by HUD no longer applied. I would say that adding a system that was not factory installed is a modification that exceeds the HUD certification of the mfg home and the modified or added systems or wiring now needs to meet current NEC code applicable to any dwelling unit likely single family.
 
Boingo1972 said:
760.176 Listing and Marking of NPLFA Cables.
Non-power limited fire alarm cables installed as wiring within buildings shall be listed in accordance with 760.176(A) and (B) and as being
resistant to the spread of fire in accordance with 760.176(C) through (F), and shall be marked in accordance with 760.176(G).

760.176(F)(1) and (2) require CI cables.
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760.176(F)(1) and (2) doesn't require CI cables for the installations. Same thing for 760.179 (G). It states standards of CI cables you need to meet when it is required.

760.176(C) is talking about the listing requirements for cables used in space for environmental air (plenum space).

UL FHIT applies to CI cable. Not all fire alarm circuits is required to be CI rated. Some local AHJ may have stricter requirements tough.
 
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I'd look at that again. Part IV of 760 covers everything in 760. And it will state:
Part IV. Listing Requirements
760.176 Listing and Marking of NPLFA Cables. Non-power limited fire alarm cables installed as wiring within buildings shall be listed in accordance with 760.176(A) and (B) and as being resistant to the spread of fire in accordance with 760.176(C) through (F), and shall be marked in accordance with 760.176(G).

That statement includes all NPLFA wires must be listed in accordance with 760.176 items C though F (C, D, E and F). F states:
(F) Fire Alarm Circuit Integrity (CI) Cable or Electrical Circuit Protective System. Cables that are used for survivability of critical circuits under fire conditions shall meet either 760.176(F)(1) or (F)(2) as follows:

F(1) is fire resistive cables
F(2) is is protective systems (conduit wraps) which are way more expensive than the cables.

So regardless, those listing requirements must be met if, and only if, the circuits are "critical circuits". That "critical circuit" designation is determined in NFPA 72. In a nutshell there are 4 levels in NFPA 72. Level 0, 1, 2 and 3.

Level 0 - not considered a "critical circuit" so 760.176 (F) doesn't apply.
Level 1 - Circuit if fully protected by an automatic fire suppression system in accordance with NFPA 13. Basically the sprinkler heads must be above the wire and the wire must be in a metal raceway. The sprinkler head(s) must protect the entirety of the circuit (all the way).
Level 2 - Requires a 2 hour rating which envokes F(1) or F(2).
Level 3 - This combines Level 1 and 2, meaning sprinklers and a 2 hour rating.

While the "sprinkler" rule exists, it's really hard to achieve 100% protection and is rarely used. Level 0 is typically used for a single family homes. Once you get into muli-dwelling occupancies or larger structures, Level 1 through 3 will generally apply wherein Level 1 is very hard to comply with, so Level 2 is by far the most common (outside of single family homes). And Level 2 will require a 2 hour rating or CI listing.
 
Boingo1972 said:
I'd look at that again. Part IV of 760 covers everything in 760. And it will state:
Part IV. Listing Requirements
760.176 Listing and Marking of NPLFA Cables. Non-power limited fire alarm cables installed as wiring within buildings shall be listed in accordance with 760.176(A) and (B) and as being resistant to the spread of fire in accordance with 760.176(C) through (F), and shall be marked in accordance with 760.176(G).

That statement includes all NPLFA wires must be listed in accordance with 760.176 items C though F (C, D, E and F). F states:
(F) Fire Alarm Circuit Integrity (CI) Cable or Electrical Circuit Protective System. Cables that are used for survivability of critical circuits under fire conditions shall meet either 760.176(F)(1) or (F)(2) as follows:

F(1) is fire resistive cables
F(2) is is protective systems (conduit wraps) which are way more expensive than the cables.

So regardless, those listing requirements must be met if, and only if, the circuits are "critical circuits". That "critical circuit" designation is determined in NFPA 72. In a nutshell there are 4 levels in NFPA 72. Level 0, 1, 2 and 3.
Boingo1972 said:
I'd look at that again. Part IV of 760 covers everything in 760. And it will state:
Part IV. Listing Requirements
760.176 Listing and Marking of NPLFA Cables. Non-power limited fire alarm cables installed as wiring within buildings shall be listed in accordance with 760.176(A) and (B) and as being resistant to the spread of fire in accordance with 760.176(C) through (F), and shall be marked in accordance with 760.176(G).

That statement includes all NPLFA wires must be listed in accordance with 760.176 items C though F (C, D, E and F). F states:
(F) Fire Alarm Circuit Integrity (CI) Cable or Electrical Circuit Protective System. Cables that are used for survivability of critical circuits under fire conditions shall meet either 760.176(F)(1) or (F)(2) as follows:

F(1) is fire resistive cables
F(2) is is protective systems (conduit wraps) which are way more expensive than the cables.

So regardless, those listing requirements must be met if, and only if, the circuits are "critical circuits". That "critical circuit" designation is determined in NFPA 72. In a nutshell there are 4 levels in NFPA 72. Level 0, 1, 2 and 3.

Level 0 - not considered a "critical circuit" so 760.176 (F) doesn't apply.
Level 1 - Circuit if fully protected by an automatic fire suppression system in accordance with NFPA 13. Basically the sprinkler heads must be above the wire and the wire must be in a metal raceway. The sprinkler head(s) must protect the entirety of the circuit (all the way).
Level 2 - Requires a 2 hour rating which envokes F(1) or F(2).
Level 3 - This combines Level 1 and 2, meaning sprinklers and a 2 hour rating.

While the "sprinkler" rule exists, it's really hard to achieve 100% protection and is rarely used. Level 0 is typically used for a single family homes. Once you get into muli-dwelling occupancies or larger structures, Level 1 through 3 will generally apply wherein Level 1 is very hard to comply with, so Level 2 is by far the most common (outside of single family homes). And Level 2 will require a 2 hour rating or CI listing.
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Level 0 - not considered a "critical circuit" so 760.176 (F) doesn't apply.
Level 1 - Circuit if fully protected by an automatic fire suppression system in accordance with NFPA 13. Basically the sprinkler heads must be above the wire and the wire must be in a metal raceway. The sprinkler head(s) must protect the entirety of the circuit (all the way).
Level 2 - Requires a 2 hour rating which envokes F(1) or F(2).
Level 3 - This combines Level 1 and 2, meaning sprinklers and a 2 hour rating.

While the "sprinkler" rule exists, it's really hard to achieve 100% protection and is rarely used. Level 0 is typically used for a single family homes. Once you get into muli-dwelling occupancies or larger structures, Level 1 through 3 will generally apply wherein Level 1 is very hard to comply with, so Level 2 is by far the most common (outside of single family homes). And Level 2 will require a 2 hour rating or CI listing.
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I think you are reading the NFPA 72 in the wrong way. The NFPA 72 Chapter 12 only defines the level of pathway survivability. It doesn't tell you when these level are required. The requirements apply only when other codes, design standard require specific level of pathway survivability. In NFPA 72 only Chapter 24 Emergency Communications requires pathway survivability for specific situations.

You can read this article to help you to understand: https://www.ecmag.com/magazine/arti...derstanding-intent-code-pathway-survivability
 
Boingo1972 said:
I'd look at that again. Part IV of 760 covers everything in 760. And it will state:
Part IV. Listing Requirements
760.176 Listing and Marking of NPLFA Cables. Non-power limited fire alarm cables installed as wiring within buildings shall be listed in accordance with 760.176(A) and (B) and as being resistant to the spread of fire in accordance with 760.176(C) through (F), and shall be marked in accordance with 760.176(G).

That statement includes all NPLFA wires must be listed in accordance with 760.176 items C though F (C, D, E and F). F states:
(F) Fire Alarm Circuit Integrity (CI) Cable or Electrical Circuit Protective System. Cables that are used for survivability of critical circuits under fire conditions shall meet either 760.176(F)(1) or (F)(2) as follows:

F(1) is fire resistive cables
F(2) is is protective systems (conduit wraps) which are way more expensive than the cables.

So regardless, those listing requirements must be met if, and only if, the circuits are "critical circuits". That "critical circuit" designation is determined in NFPA 72. In a nutshell there are 4 levels in NFPA 72. Level 0, 1, 2 and 3.

Level 0 - not considered a "critical circuit" so 760.176 (F) doesn't apply.
Level 1 - Circuit if fully protected by an automatic fire suppression system in accordance with NFPA 13. Basically the sprinkler heads must be above the wire and the wire must be in a metal raceway. The sprinkler head(s) must protect the entirety of the circuit (all the way).
Level 2 - Requires a 2 hour rating which envokes F(1) or F(2).
Level 3 - This combines Level 1 and 2, meaning sprinklers and a 2 hour rating.

While the "sprinkler" rule exists, it's really hard to achieve 100% protection and is rarely used. Level 0 is typically used for a single family homes. Once you get into muli-dwelling occupancies or larger structures, Level 1 through 3 will generally apply wherein Level 1 is very hard to comply with, so Level 2 is by far the most common (outside of single family homes). And Level 2 will require a 2 hour rating or CI listing.
Click to expand...
I think you are reading the NFPA 72 in the wrong way. The NFPA 72 Chapter 12 only defines the level of pathway survivability. It doesn't tell you when these level are required. The requirements apply only when other codes, design standard require specific level of pathway survivability. In NFPA 72 only Chapter 24 Emergency Communications requires pathway survivability for specific situations.

You can read this article to help you to understand: https://www.ecmag.com/magazine/arti...derstanding-intent-code-pathway-survivability
 
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