I will be beginning with electrical rough in for the addition on my house. I need to run the cables for the new addition through my existing partially finished basement. Rather than pull them through the ceiling (finished) I am looking into fastening them to the concrete walls (i.e. my foundation for the existing house) of the basement. I have seen plastic strips with cable "straps" which can be mounted vertically on a wall. These fastening devices appear to be what I am looking for. My question, is this method permitted under the 1999 NEC?
running cables to main panel
- Thread starter wiring
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Re: running cables to main panel
OK. I'll bite.
First off I wish to warn you that this is not a DIY site (follow the "About the Forum" link at the bottom of this page).
Answering electrical code questions and making suggestions on how to do electrical work invokes a certain inherent or implied liability.
Even your AHJ is not supposed to offer design or technical assistance. They are charged with telling you what's right, and what's wrong-- but not how to do it, nor how to fix it. The AHJ does not have the manpower to offer technical assistance-- although some will do so on a very limited basis. Their bosses don't want them in incur extra liability for the jurisdiction. Everybody is sue happy these days and when something goes wrong they end up suing everybody and going for the deepest pockets. Sad, but true.
There are DIY sites on the web that offer advice. Please accept their advice with a big grain of salt. Also, be sure to cross-check their advice with your local AHJ. The AHJ has the final say. If you present something to them they will tell you if it's OK or not. Putting some honey on it can be helpful, but is not required. Getting an audience with the AHJ can be challenging, and there may be fees involved-- but it's worth it.
Electricity is serious business, and you have stumbled into a very serious forum. I thought you might want some history before you get shown to the door by somebody who is less patient with DIY's than I am.
Here is a link for you. Proceed with caution. Don't believe a word they say. Don't believe them when they insist that they are right-- or that what they say is code. Question them, then question your AHJ.
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/wiring
Be safe. Have a nice day. Sorry I don't have any answers for you. According to my interpretation of the forum rules it's not permitted.
Please hire a certified electrician or at least to supervise your work.
../Wayne C.
PS: If you want to go off on somebody, you are welcome to Private Message me and let it rip
DIY=Do it Yourself.
AHJ=Authority Having Jurisdiction.
The AHJ may be your inspector or it may be your POCO.
POCO=Power Company.
[ September 17, 2003, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: awwt ]
OK. I'll bite.
First off I wish to warn you that this is not a DIY site (follow the "About the Forum" link at the bottom of this page).
Answering electrical code questions and making suggestions on how to do electrical work invokes a certain inherent or implied liability.
Even your AHJ is not supposed to offer design or technical assistance. They are charged with telling you what's right, and what's wrong-- but not how to do it, nor how to fix it. The AHJ does not have the manpower to offer technical assistance-- although some will do so on a very limited basis. Their bosses don't want them in incur extra liability for the jurisdiction. Everybody is sue happy these days and when something goes wrong they end up suing everybody and going for the deepest pockets. Sad, but true.
There are DIY sites on the web that offer advice. Please accept their advice with a big grain of salt. Also, be sure to cross-check their advice with your local AHJ. The AHJ has the final say. If you present something to them they will tell you if it's OK or not. Putting some honey on it can be helpful, but is not required. Getting an audience with the AHJ can be challenging, and there may be fees involved-- but it's worth it.
Electricity is serious business, and you have stumbled into a very serious forum. I thought you might want some history before you get shown to the door by somebody who is less patient with DIY's than I am.
Here is a link for you. Proceed with caution. Don't believe a word they say. Don't believe them when they insist that they are right-- or that what they say is code. Question them, then question your AHJ.
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/wiring
Be safe. Have a nice day. Sorry I don't have any answers for you. According to my interpretation of the forum rules it's not permitted.
Please hire a certified electrician or at least to supervise your work.
../Wayne C.
PS: If you want to go off on somebody, you are welcome to Private Message me and let it rip
DIY=Do it Yourself.
AHJ=Authority Having Jurisdiction.
The AHJ may be your inspector or it may be your POCO.
POCO=Power Company.
[ September 17, 2003, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: awwt ]
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: running cables to main panel
Awwt/Ctroyp:
Awwt/Ctroyp:
You think that maybe this is why he came to this forum?
G
Guest
Guest
Re: running cables to main panel
I'm trying to be as helpful as I can and stay within the guidlines of this forum. Any suggestions other than to not respond? I welcome any tips here-- you folks are Aces with me.
../Wayne
PS: Maybe the webmaster could build an FAQ for DIY's with a link that we can point them to. The first part of the DIY FAQ could be a PDQ on the ABC's of XYZ and 1-2-3.
I'm trying to be as helpful as I can and stay within the guidlines of this forum. Any suggestions other than to not respond? I welcome any tips here-- you folks are Aces with me.
../Wayne
PS: Maybe the webmaster could build an FAQ for DIY's with a link that we can point them to. The first part of the DIY FAQ could be a PDQ on the ABC's of XYZ and 1-2-3.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: running cables to main panel
Sorry Awwt as this just struck me funny as where could someone find so many qualified electrician's in one place than right here. the way I feel about it is this guy will do the work anyway wouldn't it be better if he had good advice? or would a Home depot web board be better? I didn't know about this rule here but to me It just does not sound American to me as we should be able to do what ever to want to what is ours. weather it be a house , car, boat,Etc... If we feel that we can handle a job and there are many that can we should have the right to do it ourselves. Is it dangerous? Yes can it harm others? Yes this is why there must be a local AHJ inspection for this type of work. When we used to work on our own cars we had to have them yearly inspected because of the dangers of something going wrong and causing death on the highways. I know that many will disagree with me but when will it stop. we now have to wear seat belts that cause no harm to others if we don't. to me this is against all I believe in. Our Rights are slowly slipping away. whats next can't mow your lawn unless you have a degree saying that you can do so safely? this in itself can be dangerous. OK I'll quit.
Sorry Awwt as this just struck me funny as where could someone find so many qualified electrician's in one place than right here. the way I feel about it is this guy will do the work anyway wouldn't it be better if he had good advice? or would a Home depot web board be better? I didn't know about this rule here but to me It just does not sound American to me as we should be able to do what ever to want to what is ours. weather it be a house , car, boat,Etc... If we feel that we can handle a job and there are many that can we should have the right to do it ourselves. Is it dangerous? Yes can it harm others? Yes this is why there must be a local AHJ inspection for this type of work. When we used to work on our own cars we had to have them yearly inspected because of the dangers of something going wrong and causing death on the highways. I know that many will disagree with me but when will it stop. we now have to wear seat belts that cause no harm to others if we don't. to me this is against all I believe in. Our Rights are slowly slipping away. whats next can't mow your lawn unless you have a degree saying that you can do so safely? this in itself can be dangerous. OK I'll quit.
russellroberts
Senior Member
- Location
- Georgia
Re: running cables to main panel
I'd tend to agree with Hurk,people are going to diy no matter how many times you tell them how dangerous it can be.
Unless there are laws passed that require a license to buy electrical equipment people are going to diy.
I'll have to admit that I haven't paid a mechanic to put brakes on one of my vehicles in 35 years.
Russell
I'd tend to agree with Hurk,people are going to diy no matter how many times you tell them how dangerous it can be.
Unless there are laws passed that require a license to buy electrical equipment people are going to diy.
I'll have to admit that I haven't paid a mechanic to put brakes on one of my vehicles in 35 years.
Russell
Re: running cables to main panel
Sorry to bother you! I know how dangerous DIY work is after learning this and working with my father, a NYS licensed electrical contractor with his own business for 30 years. I won't bother explaining the work that I have been involved with. Sorry to see that you guys (those that have responded) think that not having a license means not having a clue about electricity.
Sorry to bother you! I know how dangerous DIY work is after learning this and working with my father, a NYS licensed electrical contractor with his own business for 30 years. I won't bother explaining the work that I have been involved with. Sorry to see that you guys (those that have responded) think that not having a license means not having a clue about electricity.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: running cables to main panel
This is a question that can only be answered by your AHJ as it is "subjective" and not a clear cut code rule.
Don
This is a question that can only be answered by your AHJ as it is "subjective" and not a clear cut code rule.
Don
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: running cables to main panel
And as a note, just to show how this application can vary, in Washington State the use of plastic NM standoff brackets for the side of stud are not required. This is where an electrican, who is familar with the codes and methods can save you time and money.
Again I would say "what else is the poster not asking". All of us electricians have seen nighmares from well intentioned persons. The big danger is the hazard we are exposed to when troubleshooting or making repairs.
One DIYer said "ts not rocket science to wire my pool" True perhaps, but in my state it requires 4,000 hours of experinence to be a residential electrician, not a few minutes asking questions at a code forum.
Awwt thansk for the comments on DIY link.
[ September 17, 2003, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: tom baker ]
Hurk 27- this site is not for DIY'ers, thats the policy the forum owner, Mike Holt has set, and we are to follow.
And as a note, just to show how this application can vary, in Washington State the use of plastic NM standoff brackets for the side of stud are not required. This is where an electrican, who is familar with the codes and methods can save you time and money.
Again I would say "what else is the poster not asking". All of us electricians have seen nighmares from well intentioned persons. The big danger is the hazard we are exposed to when troubleshooting or making repairs.
One DIYer said "ts not rocket science to wire my pool" True perhaps, but in my state it requires 4,000 hours of experinence to be a residential electrician, not a few minutes asking questions at a code forum.
Awwt thansk for the comments on DIY link.
[ September 17, 2003, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: tom baker ]
Re: running cables to main panel
I agree w/you just as much as I do w/Wayne. I stated that I felt Wayne handled the question accurately by letting wiring know that this is not for DIYer's. Wayne referred him to a DIY link that would be helpful.
Although, we now know that wiring seems to have quite a bit of experience. I'm sure he probably can accomplish this work satisfactorily but that doesn't mean that every DIYer can. I do agree in the American dream. But that doesn't mean the installation will be safe.
The fact is, like Wayne stated, this is specifically not a site for DIYers. lol
hurk27:
I agree w/you just as much as I do w/Wayne. I stated that I felt Wayne handled the question accurately by letting wiring know that this is not for DIYer's. Wayne referred him to a DIY link that would be helpful.
Although, we now know that wiring seems to have quite a bit of experience. I'm sure he probably can accomplish this work satisfactorily but that doesn't mean that every DIYer can. I do agree in the American dream. But that doesn't mean the installation will be safe.
The fact is, like Wayne stated, this is specifically not a site for DIYers. lol
G
Guest
Guest
Re: running cables to main panel
You folks are psychic. You quoted me before I had edited my post. I just edited my post five minutes ago
I was quoted as saying:
Since then I have edited my post and added
Because of the current rules of this forum I feel prohibited from offering advice to DIY. The only options left for me are:
</font>
(pick any one or more)
When I first came here I didn't understand the hostility towards DIY-- and I still don't understand it-- but I do now understand the basis for the hostility.
One concern I have is that the DIY's that come here may one day be needing our services-- but because we have been arrogant or worse they will only call on us as a last resort. I feel we need to treat DIY's like humans and like potential clients. No need to alienate the DIY in the process of educating them. We need to figure out a way to be assertive without being abusive.
I just want to be helpful and learn along the way.
You folks are psychic. You quoted me before I had edited my post. I just edited my post five minutes ago
I was quoted as saying:
I didn't say that-- jro & ctroyp did. I left that part out.
Since then I have edited my post and added
It really doesn't matter but for the sake of accuracy I want to give credit where credit is due.
Because of the current rules of this forum I feel prohibited from offering advice to DIY. The only options left for me are:
</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't reply to the post.</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Refer the DIY to a DIY site.</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Suggest hiring a qualified electrician to supervise or perform the work.</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Insult the DIY.</font>
- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Break the Forum Rules.</font>
(pick any one or more)
When I first came here I didn't understand the hostility towards DIY-- and I still don't understand it-- but I do now understand the basis for the hostility.
One concern I have is that the DIY's that come here may one day be needing our services-- but because we have been arrogant or worse they will only call on us as a last resort. I feel we need to treat DIY's like humans and like potential clients. No need to alienate the DIY in the process of educating them. We need to figure out a way to be assertive without being abusive.
I just want to be helpful and learn along the way.
Re: running cables to main panel
I dont see my post or Wayne's as being hostile toward the DIY, but rules are rules, just because the speedometer on a car has 150mph on it, doesn't mean you can drive 150mph you have to follow the rules, both me and Wanye suggested Wiring, seek the help of a qaulified electrician, if you look at Wiring's post the NM cables would have to be protected with a sleeve and not just secured to the concrete walls, so see how somtimes there is more to it than just running ROMEX.
I dont see my post or Wayne's as being hostile toward the DIY, but rules are rules, just because the speedometer on a car has 150mph on it, doesn't mean you can drive 150mph you have to follow the rules, both me and Wanye suggested Wiring, seek the help of a qaulified electrician, if you look at Wiring's post the NM cables would have to be protected with a sleeve and not just secured to the concrete walls, so see how somtimes there is more to it than just running ROMEX.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: running cables to main panel
All that is required is to closely follow the building finish.
Of coarse if this area is subject to physical damage, other methods might be needed.
Bob
Why is that, running boards or even maybe the tie wraps that wiring described, I was wondering if he meant tie wraps with the hole in the end for mounting.
All that is required is to closely follow the building finish.
Of coarse if this area is subject to physical damage, other methods might be needed.
Bob
G
Guest
Guest
Re: running cables to main panel
I'm thinkin' s/he might be talkin' about using those stick on tie-wrap bases like you might use on a very smooth surface. Those little square plastic sticky pads that will retain a tie-wrap. If so, the Romex would fall off the wall within a year.
I'm thinkin' s/he might be talkin' about using those stick on tie-wrap bases like you might use on a very smooth surface. Those little square plastic sticky pads that will retain a tie-wrap. If so, the Romex would fall off the wall within a year.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: running cables to main panel
Bob,
Don
Bob,
This is the reason that the AHJ must be consulted. This area of the code is not clear cut and is very subjective. The only correct answer is the one from the local AHJ.
Don
Re: running cables to main panel
wiring:
For clarity, when you say "partially finished" do you mean that only the ceiling is finished or there is a complete finished section in the basement making it a partially finished basement? My instinct tells me after reading your post that only the ceiling is finished. Well, if so, are you going to be framing the basement walls in the future that will cover your new addition feeds?
wiring:
For clarity, when you say "partially finished" do you mean that only the ceiling is finished or there is a complete finished section in the basement making it a partially finished basement? My instinct tells me after reading your post that only the ceiling is finished. Well, if so, are you going to be framing the basement walls in the future that will cover your new addition feeds?
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