Running conduit on top of a concrete floor

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It's for a soon to be restaurant. Some hippie joint in Berkeley:roll: It's a large island with a bunch of stuff. Waffle irons,hot dog rollers, panini, blender, food processor, Bunn coffee, tea urn, cold case, bakery case, refrigerated prep table, bev. fridge. So I was going to come out of a new 100a. sub panel with EMT to a j-box on the wall near the island. Then come out of the j-box with EMT run it on the floor, and use some kind of ramp to protect it. I worried about putting too many CCC in one conduit and having to derate. What was the magic number 9 CCC before the derating becomes a problem? Should I run a couple of 3/4" conduits to the j-box, then a couple of 3/4" conduits on the floor to a j-box inside the island somewhere. I'm mostly a resi. electrician. Thank you for your help everyone.
 
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zappy said:
It's for a soon to be restaurant. Some hippie joint in Berkeley:roll: It's a large island with a bunch of stuff. Waffle irons,hot dog rollers, panini, blender, food processor, Bunn coffee, tea urn, cold case, bakery case, refrigerated prep table, bev. fridge. So I was going to come out of a new 100a. sub panel with EMT to a j-box on the wall near the island. Then come out of the j-box with EMT run it on the floor, and use some kind of ramp to protect it. I worried about putting too many CCC in one conduit and having to derate. What was the magic number 9 CCC before the derating becomes a problem? Should I run a couple of 3/4" conduits to the j-box, then a couple of 3/4" conduits on the floor to a j-box inside the island somewhere. I'm mostly a resi. electrician. Thank you for your help everyone.
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Zappy,

With all that equipment I would think that plumbing , refridgeration, etc. pipes would need

to get out there somehow too!
 
benaround said:
Zappy,

With all that equipment I would think that plumbing , refridgeration, etc. pipes would need

to get out there somehow too!
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It's a existing building. I don't know how there going to run the plumbing etc. to the island. I just have the electrical plans. Good point.
 
zappy said:
It's for a soon to be restaurant. Some hippie joint in Berkeley:roll: It's a large island with a bunch of stuff. Waffle irons,hot dog rollers, panini, blender, food processor, Bunn coffee, tea urn, cold case, bakery case, refrigerated prep table, bev. fridge. So I was going to come out of a new 100a. sub panel with EMT to a j-box on the wall near the island. Then come out of the j-box with EMT run it on the floor, and use some kind of ramp to protect it. I worried about putting too many CCC in one conduit and having to derate. What was the magic number 9 CCC before the derating becomes a problem? Should I run a couple of 3/4" conduits to the j-box, then a couple of 3/4" conduits on the floor to a j-box inside the island somewhere. I'm mostly a resi. electrician. Thank you for your help everyone.
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Benaround and Zappy are right, other stuff will need to be run to the island as well. Being a hippy doesn't exempt the owner from paying for a code compliant or safe installation. I'd get together with them and the other trades and come up with a better plan than ramps. The health department should have issues with that kind of workaround.
 
PetrosA said:
Benaround and Zappy are right, other stuff will need to be run to the island as well. Being a hippy doesn't exempt the owner from paying for a code compliant or safe installation. I'd get together with them and the other trades and come up with a better plan than ramps. The health department should have issues with that kind of workaround.
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This installation would be NEC compliant and without seeing it we can not begin to guess at any health code issues.
 
I have an idea.
Why don't you break up the concrete, dig a trench and put it all below the floor. Charge them an "arm & a leg" and put them out of business before they start....great idea :roll:


How many times have we discussed creative ideas that are code compliant? Whether or not someone likes it is a design issue. Design issues are one of the reasons so many houses look different than others. ;):cool:
 
What I have seen done in meat markets, deli counters, bars is put in a raised floor to run all the utilities.

Puts the workers above the customers, and pads their feet.

Another idea is to enclose one side of the wrap to the wall.

A power pole can't be used? I have put boxes, gutters in the middle of the building. You get creative with the strut or flatten 3/4 EMT to use as kickers.
 
zappy said:
It's for a soon to be restaurant. Some hippie joint in Berkeley:roll: It's a large island with a bunch of stuff. Waffle irons,hot dog rollers, panini, blender, food processor, Bunn coffee, tea urn, cold case, bakery case, refrigerated prep table, bev. fridge. So I was going to come out of a new 100a. sub panel with EMT to a j-box on the wall near the island. Then come out of the j-box with EMT run it on the floor, and use some kind of ramp to protect it. I worried about putting too many CCC in one conduit and having to derate. What was the magic number 9 CCC before the derating becomes a problem? Should I run a couple of 3/4" conduits to the j-box, then a couple of 3/4" conduits on the floor to a j-box inside the island somewhere. I'm mostly a resi. electrician. Thank you for your help everyone.
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If you can run mutlible conduits then maybe you could go with one of the flat Wiremold products.

I would also agree that up and over would be better if you could do it neatly. Even a ramp can be a trip hazard if it's not built right.
 
iwire said:
This installation would be NEC compliant and without seeing it we can not begin to guess at any health code issues.
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Yes - very excellent point - which is why I did the gyb-crete and epoxy thing in the situation I mentioned earlier. (Which was also for a hippy-dippy cafe across the bay from Zappy) Restaurant floors need to be moppable and everything needs to able to be washed down regularly. And health inspectors are very nit-picky on such things. I have had them get itchy even with conduit on walls - 'Goo can collect there and be food for roaches, and incubate disease...'

Anyway Zappy - Unless this is a big chain store, you should be ready for long debates on many levels with the owners and GC on this, and always be ready for contsant change. I have done many of these types of TI build-outs where restaurant owners really are clueless about how things are built or work. They often think in terms of only how the food is made or paid for, but often fail to think about the infrastructure, or reliability of it. Once they are confronted with the costs of such things they go cheap. And since many of them include multiple investors you should expect in-fighting.... And they will often see you (and the plumber) as some sort of cost driving CO machines - taking advantage... So be prepared to explain things up-front, and get your CO process down solid in the beginning.

I would also try to include language defining general purpose & dedicated circuits, wattage allowed on circuits, and listing detail of EVERY appliance spec's (no matter how small) and circuit requirements on your contract documents. DO NOT BE VAGUE! AND DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO BE VAGUE! In thier puny heads one pannini machine at 120v 20A is the same as a 240v 30A one, and do not understand the difference between 240, and 208 equipment either. They often try to switcharoo stuff, and move it from here to there mid-stream. And think 5 - 10A blenders can work fine on a 20A circuit with the POS system with a plug strip. Then call you as if it were a warrantee item... If they get flustered by the RFI's and questions - tell them that "they would not be happy if something goes down during the dinner or lunch rush - or if (you) had to come back to do additional work for things that get missed in the initial construction, which would cost much more."

You should also be prepared to load calc not just the unit the place is in, but often the building too. 50% of the ones I have done either needed panel or service up-grades if there was not a simular operation there before... Place a contingency +/or allowance for calculations in contact with exclusions of additional work as well.

IMO - this where contracting is ALL ABOUT CONTRACTS! Sure if you beat the details out of them you'll find your price going up, and they may not be happy about the interogation to get it out of them. But - you won't be the sucker paying for it. It will also educate them in what to look for with other electricians...
 
Also - since this is a restaurant.... If there is any sinks in the area - the will have to break-up or go under the floor anyway. All sinks must be indirect drain to a basin in the floor. Get friendly with the plumber and find out his plans...
 
e57 said:
Also - since this is a restaurant.... If there is any sinks in the area - the will have to break-up or go under the floor anyway. All sinks must be indirect drain to a basin in the floor. Get friendly with the plumber and find out his plans...
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Hey thanks for all the advice!
 
iwire said:
This installation would be NEC compliant and without seeing it we can not begin to guess at any health code issues.
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I'm not saying it's not compliant with the NEC, but after 10 years of experience with health inspectors at my cafes, I know that building, electrical etc. codes don't interest them very much. Since the OP doesn't seem to have experience with that industry, he just needs to do some homework. It's possible that it won't be enough to come up with "just" an NEC compliant design.

Here's one for those of you who have experience in restaurants and the food industry - In Poland where I had my cafes, if a health inspector found ONE cockroach, you got shut down till you could prove they had been dealt with. I often thought about a trash compactor motor I used to service here in the US and wondered how the health inspectors there would have reacted to the teeming life under it's housing ;)
 
IMO, 300.6(D) needs consideration if this area is to be saturated with water during

clean-up, a 1/4" airspace would be required under the metal conduit.
 
zappy said:
It's for a soon to be restaurant. Some hippie joint in Berkeley:roll: It's a large island with a bunch of stuff. Waffle irons,hot dog rollers, panini, blender, food processor, Bunn coffee, tea urn, cold case, bakery case, refrigerated prep table, bev. fridge. So I was going to come out of a new 100a. sub panel with EMT to a j-box on the wall near the island. Then come out of the j-box with EMT run it on the floor, and use some kind of ramp to protect it. I worried about putting too many CCC in one conduit and having to derate. What was the magic number 9 CCC before the derating becomes a problem? Should I run a couple of 3/4" conduits to the j-box, then a couple of 3/4" conduits on the floor to a j-box inside the island somewhere. I'm mostly a resi. electrician. Thank you for your help everyone.
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instead of a jbox, why not just locate the new panel where you are thinking of putting the jbox.
 
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