Running outlets

[rjlight]

Assuming one is running 15 amp curcuits for receptacles I do not like to backstab wires although it is Ok code wise and I like to run outlets in parallel. I realize this is more time consuming and may make me less competitive. How do you deal with this on your jobs? Also, since the code has no limit to number of bedroom outlets does anyone have a set number to use per circuit as a guide/general rule?

Thanks, Raymond

 

[hurk27]

Re: Running outlets

As this is not much of a code issue but a design issue. I tend to not run more than one circuit to a bedroom but with the new AFCI rule I try to keep the master bedroom by it's self if not many lights I'll put up to three bedrooms lights on there own circuit (here in Indiana no AFCI needed for the light's or smokes) and if there are two smaller bedrooms then I will place there receptacles on another AFCI. The bathroom and hallway lights will be on another circuit. the bathroom GFCI's will be on there own 20 amp circuit, but with a GFCI receptacle in each location so the home owner doesn't have to track through the house looking for it. I try to keep my GFCI receptacles at the point of use as this keeps call backs down. Whirlpools I use a faceless GFCI located in the wall just out side of the tub area and place a single receptacle from the load side of it under the tub for the pump. I try to install enough circuits to keep nuisance tripping to a minimum as this is the last thing a new home owner want to have happen.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Running outlets

I have a service contract with a home builder to perform warranty work. They use their own piece workers for the actual installtion and do not want to bother with the service end. I would estimate up to 80% of receptacle / switch failures in the first year is do to "back-stabbing". Failed joints ranks right up there. So in effect, poor workmanship and lack of due care in either case will lead to problems.

I simply use 210.11(A) to determine the total number of branch circuits and then split them up as evenly as possible. It is usually more than proficent for typical cunsumer needs.

 

[feez]

Re: Running outlets

I generally count recept. at an amp and a half apiece. This leaves you with a total of eight recept. on a #14 AWG Cu circuit. As far as backstabbing goes, I tell my students to avoid it if at all possible, for the same reason I caution them against jumpers (feeding both switches in, say, a two gang with one wire jumped across both terminals). If there's a break or failure in the wire (or the recept.) the rest of the ckt. goes out, as opposed to only that recept. or outlet.
But what do you mean by running recept. in parallel? Do you set a j-box in your feed and drop down to each one? If so, I can see where this might make you less competitive. That's a lot of time and labor.

[ May 04, 2004, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: feez ]

 

[bennie]

Re: Running outlets

I attended a seminar at the Levinton receptacle Mfg. Plant in Los Angeles.

We ran quality control tests, including destructive tests on all grades of their product.

The push in connections were far better than the side wired.

The side wired would loosen when pushing the device back in the box, on 60% of the devices.

The push in had zero loose. The #14 gauge wire would break, or the guts would come out when trying to pull the wire out. Try this yourself.

The reason the push in hole is limited to No.#14 cu, is because installers will attempt to push in No.#14 in a No.#12 clip.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Running outlets

I can see how in a "lab type" setting the push-in connectors would hold up under test conditions. Obviously they are tested this way with UL and approved for wire termination in this manner.

Where the problem comes in is poor workmanship and improperly making the termination out in the field. Due to the fact the back-stabbing method is the most prefered method for production and ease, it is the most common performed. The side method is so hardly used that the probability of one failing is slim. It can be reasoned that if the side wiring method could be performed faster and easier than the back-stabbing method, we would all be complaining about them failing all the time.

I am in favor of the pressure plate style that is used on most GFCI receptacles. It allows me to control the torque of the connection while keeping the speed and convience of back-stabbing. Its the best of both methods.

 

[pierre]

Re: Running outlets

Bryan
Did you mention 'torque'? as in a torque screwdriver.

Pierre

 

[tom baker]

Re: Running outlets

Bennie welcome back
It used to be push ins were allowed for 14 and 12 gaqe, comments were made by electricians how good can the connection be? Turns out that perhaps not so good, as about ten years ago UL changed the listing to only allow 14 gage push in.
I prefer side wiring, as I only use stranded wire.
Many commerical jobs spec 20 A receptacles but when was the last time you saw any load with a 20 amp cord cap?