Safety Story

[Twoskinsoneman]

It is my opinion that the code change will lead to more hot work, more injuries, more deaths.

IMO your mostly wrong. I'm sure there are a lot of cases where what you say may be right... but there is a big difference between choosing to work on an energized circuit and thinking the circuit is safe because you opened one breaker and there was no indication it was a MWBC.

Also there has to be progress toward a work place where you are not forced to work unsafely (hot). I know we are not there but these rules are needed to force the issue forward.

 

[iwire]

IMO your mostly wrong. I'm sure there are a lot of cases where what you say may be right...

Large area, 277 volt lighting fed by multi wire branch circuit, you need to work on a single branch of that circuit.

Large office, recptacles fed with multiwire branch circuit.

Many, many many ....... many people are going to expected to and will choose to work these circuits hot instead of putting a large area out of power.

but there is a big difference between choosing to work on an energized circuit and thinking the circuit is safe because you opened one breaker and there was no indication it was a MWBC.

If your working on circuits your supposed to be qualified and this tool (or one like it)

will tell you if the neutral you are about to open is in fact 'hot'. :smile:

Also there has to be progress toward a work place where you are not forced to work unsafely (hot). I know we are not there but these rules are needed to force the issue forward.

That I agree with and we will be there eventually but I really think this new rule is too soon.

 

[hillbilly1]

It is my opinion that the code change will lead to more hot work, more injuries, more deaths.

I agree, instead of disrupting just one circuit, three will be disrupted, sure it's safer, but in real world conditions it just isn't feasible. Knowing better than opening the common neutral tap is the answer, If it has to be opened, then all related circuits should be opened. Safe is knowing your limitations. Their is risk in this trade, knowing how to limit it is half the battle. It's just like the PPE, the facesheild reduces visibility increasing the risk of an accidental arcflash, same with the gloves, hard to hold on to small tools, Dropping a bolt that somehow makes it's way to a buss may cause an explosion that your PPE will only partially fend off. You trade off what would not have happened for a higher possibility of happening. If this job was easy, you could use homeless bums off the street to do it.

 

[hillbilly1]

IMO your mostly wrong. I'm sure there are a lot of cases where what you say may be right... but there is a big difference between choosing to work on an energized circuit and thinking the circuit is safe because you opened one breaker and there was no indication it was a MWBC.

Also there has to be progress toward a work place where you are not forced to work unsafely (hot). I know we are not there but these rules are needed to force the issue forward.

If the box you are working at has no other hots,and you have turned off that circuit, breaking the neutral at that point does not introduce an open neutral hazard, as it is no longer a MWBC at that point. Why should you be forced to turn off the other two circuits?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

IMO your mostly wrong. I'm sure there are a lot of cases where what you say may be right... but there is a big difference between choosing to work on an energized circuit and thinking the circuit is safe because you opened one breaker and there was no indication it was a MWBC.

Also there has to be progress toward a work place where you are not forced to work unsafely (hot). I know we are not there but these rules are needed to force the issue forward.

No company will demand you work anything hot. But many exspect you to. That will likely never change. The new rules are putting us in more danger not less. Killing all 3 circuits just will not work out. We need to train the men better as to what is involved in multi wire, till then some will get hurt or even killed.

 

[iwire]

No company will demand you work anything hot. But many expect you to.

Extremely well put Jim.

 

[stew]

I just took a class thru my union affiliation on the nfpa 70 e. One thing that I really took to heart was the teaching to NEVER BECOME COMPLACENT in this business.As soon as you assume that all is good without actually checking with a meter you put yourself in a potentially dangerous position. I have been involved in the electrical game in one way or another for over 35 years and I want to go out of the game with all my body parts and life intact. I intend to be much more aware and saftey minded since I took that class and did not realize just how close I may have come oever the years to disaster. Learn from this fellows mistake and be safe out there guys!!!

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Large area, 277 volt lighting fed by multi wire branch circuit, you need to work on a single branch of that circuit.

Large office, recptacles fed with multiwire branch circuit.

Many, many many ....... many people are going to expected to and will choose to work these circuits hot instead of putting a large area out of power.




If your working on circuits your supposed to be qualified and this tool (or one like it)

will tell you if the neutral you are about to open is in fact 'hot'. :smile:




That I agree with and we will be there eventually but I really think this new rule is too soon.

I think you need buy a new meter , look at the reading LOL

 

[brian john]

The current did not pass through his lungs or heart, but across his shoulders and neck. His muscles contracted so violently, that he broke 2 vertebra in his neck. He survived the incident, but has permanent damage.

Only a doctor can guess at that.

 

[hillbilly1]

I always tell my apprentises never take anybodies word that it is dead including my own. Verify it yourself.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Only a doctor can guess at that.

I did not diagnose the person, he was hospitalized for a long time. I am just posting this as I thought the damage caused was different than we usually see in these kind of accidents.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Lets hope that this post keeps others from same mistake. Usually when we get hurt is because we get stupid for a second. This happened because of a series of mistakes that added up. Started by landing a wire that wasn't ready. Yes are times that doing so seems best as we do not want panels left open any longer than needed. Probably was done to save time. His second mistake was not locking it out. Am sure he knows all this now but it's bit too late. 277 is no joke.