SCCR , power supply & SPD questions for an industrial control panel - detailed

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Mismail

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Hi all,

we are assembling an industrial control panel which consists of 4 branch circuits supplied from panel feeder as follows:

Panel feeder : #12 AWG , which is connected directly to fused-distribution block (i will call it FDB) (200KA , 1 in - 8 out ) no other devices are connected to the feeder (no breaker , no disconnects , and so on).

(1) Branch 1 (Main circuit) : supplied from the above FDB , then Fused disconnect switch then power supply (3PH-in , 24vdc-out,5A) then supplementary breaker number 1 (3A) then PLC & I/O

(2) Branch 2 (Heater) : supplied from the above FDB , then Fused disconnect switch then power supply (3PH-in , 24vdc-out,20A) then supplementary breaker number 2 (20A) then Heater

(3) Branch 3 (Lighting) : supplied from the above FDB , then Fused disconnect switch then power supply (1PH-in , 24vdc-out , 3A) then supplementary breaker number 3 (2A) then LED

(4) Branch 4 : supplied from the above FDB , then Fused disconnect switch then Receptacle outlet

My questions:
----------------
(Q1) : At first , all the above " Fused disconnect switches " were circuit breaker , but since max interrupt capacity we found was 10 kA , that was a small value since it always lowers the global SCCR of the panel , so we thought to replace the breakers with Fused disconnect switches which dramatically increased the SCCR of all branches upstream all the power supplies at almost small acceptable cost. Now , what about the breakers downstream the power supplies ,

(a) Branch 1 : the is control circuit class 1 fed by power supply (which is similar to control transformer rules - i guess ) hence the supplementary breaker number 1 will be neglected , is that correct ?

(b) Branch 2 : the supplementary breaker number 2 has interrupt capacity of 7.5 kA and since the power supply is less than 5 kVA and less than 120 v secondary output (i will treat it as power transformer - can i do that ?) then the primary protector of the power supply applies its SCCR to the entire branch circuit hence it is ok to use the supplementary breaker number 2 , is that correct ?

(c) Branch 3 : same as Branch 2 , is that correct ?

OR , should we take all supplementary breakers into account while estimating SCCR of the panel because a power supply cannot be treated as a power transformer nor a control transformer ?

(Q2) If it is required to install SPD for the panel feeder , it will be another branch (number 5) in parallel to the above branches and supplied from FDB , is that correct ?

Thank you all for helping
 
I would read carefully the requirements found in ul508a for calculating short circuit current rating. I think you will find that only Power circuits are used in the calculation and I'm not sure you have any power circuits as defined by the standard. Your sccr rating on your label may just say not applicable.
 
I would read carefully the requirements found in ul508a for calculating short circuit current rating. I think you will find that only Power circuits are used in the calculation and I'm not sure you have any power circuits as defined by the standard. Your sccr rating on your label may just say not applicable.

OK, I agree with you by sense ,although I don't have a clue. Look The main question is "what the category of power supplies with 24 volt output?", NEC 450.1 exception 4 excluded class 2 & 3 ONLY , while the above circuits (even the plc branch) are class 1 circuits , so should I consider it a transformer and apply 450 rules . Is it power transformer or control transformer or depends on the load ? for example a power supply 3ph-380 vac input and 24 vdc-20A output ,what is that power supply ?
 
OK, I agree with you by sense ,although I don't have a clue. Look The main question is "what the category of power supplies with 24 volt output?", NEC 450.1 exception 4 excluded class 2 & 3 ONLY , while the above circuits (even the plc branch) are class 1 circuits , so should I consider it a transformer and apply 450 rules . Is it power transformer or control transformer or depends on the load ? for example a power supply 3ph-380 vac input and 24 vdc-20A output ,what is that power supply ?

You need to read the standard and what it says but chances are anything that's 24 volts is not going to be power circuit. Does anything from the box power anything outside the box that might be a power circuit like a heater or a motor? Pretty much any load inside the box with a few exceptions is not going to be a power circuit.

There is nothing in the National electrical code that gives you any guidance as to how to calculate short circuit current ratings other than a fine print note that mentions ul508a. I don't know what you're referring to in article 450. It just doesn't matter as far as calculating the short circuit current rating.

You need to look inside ul508a for your answer.
 
I would read carefully the requirements found in ul508a for calculating short circuit current rating. I think you will find that only Power circuits are used in the calculation and I'm not sure you have any power circuits as defined by the standard. Your sccr rating on your label may just say not applicable.

one more thing please , you said "I'm not sure you have any power circuits as defined by the standard" , what is the definition of power circuits according to standards ?
 
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