Scrap wire

[daleuger]

The contractor I used to work for in practice would fire people over taking even the smallest bit of scrap wire. However, not everyone agreed with this and it was pretty common practice on job sites for it to be divided up amongst the most junior apprentices as sort of a "supplement" to their low income. It really depended on who was running the job, who was around, circumstances etc, how much this went on but it did. They figured the company is already making millions what's a couple hundred here and there. Some wouldn't condone it at all, some would even go so far as to purposely order and extra 10 or 20 feet for feeders just for the apprentices. The company I'm at now I've noticed this doesn't really happen at all. Does this happen at yours? How do you feel about this practice?

 

[peter d]

Some wouldn't condone it at all, some would even go so far as to purposely order and extra 10 or 20 feet for feeders just for the apprentices.

There is a word for that. It's called "theft."

 

[JohnJ0906]

It all depends on company policy.

some would even go so far as to purposely order and extra 10 or 20 feet for feeders just for the apprentices.

Theft. Period.


The problem with allowing people to keep scrap, is the deliberate wastage. I've seen it all too often.

 

[Kdog76]

My 1st employer kept ALL his scrap.
My 2nd employer kept all his scrap too, but he would sell it & divide among us as a bonus.
My 3rd employer kept ALL his scrap.

Whoever is buying the materials gets to decide what happens. As an apprentice I felt proud to bring ALL my scrap at the end of the job over to my boss, and I know he appreciated it. He never split it any of the money, and I never asked. Now that I am my own boss, I get to keep ALL MY scrap .

And yes, it is theft, punishable by law.

 

[George Stolz]

...some would even go so far as to purposely order and extra 10 or 20 feet for feeders just for the apprentices.

theft! theft! theft!

What is the term used when the feeder run is one foot short?

I'd rather be 10' too long than a foot short, IMO.

 

[celtic]

What is the term used when the feeder run is one foot short?

I'd rather be 10' too long than a foot short, IMO.

I'd rather be looking at it than for it :grin:

 

[SegDog]

trash or cash?

trash or cash?

If someone has to explain to you the difference between theft and dumpster-diving, there is a problem.

I worked for a guy that commented to me about putting scraps in my pig-tail bucket, but then again he used to look over my shoulder when I cleaned-out my apron everyday.

 

[peter d]

What is the term used when the feeder run is one foot short?

I'd rather be 10' too long than a foot short, IMO.

I'm thinking that what's happening is adding an additional 10 feet in addition to the extra footage that is almost always added anyway. That's how I read that. If your run and termination length is 30 feet, and you purposely order 50 feet to scrap 15 or so feet, that is theft.

 

[drbond24]

They figured the company is already making millions what's a couple hundred here and there.

This arguement makes me mad wherever it is used. Lazy people say things like this to justify doing what EVERYBODY knows is wrong. Just because someone has more money than you doesn't entitle you to take any of it. If I have four apples and you have none, I DO NOT have to give you any apples. Furthermore, if you took one without my permission then you STOLE it. You could ask for it or I could offer it, but without that communication it is theft.

Scale does not have an effect on what you did. It would be like going to court and saying "but judge, I only killed 2 people! There are guys who have killed way more than that!" The answer, of course, is that you killed two people and you're going to jail. There is no difference between taking company ink pens home and taking cash directly out of your bosses' wallet.

Stealing is stealing is stealing. The sugar coating you've attempted to put on it doesn't change the crap underneath.

 

[daleuger]

This arguement makes me mad wherever it is used. Lazy people say things like this to justify doing what EVERYBODY knows is wrong. Just because someone has more money than you doesn't entitle you to take any of it. If I have four apples and you have none, I DO NOT have to give you any apples. Furthermore, if you took one without my permission then you STOLE it. You could ask for it or I could offer it, but without that communication it is theft.

Scale does not have an effect on what you did. It would be like going to court and saying "but judge, I only killed 2 people! There are guys who have killed way more than that!" The answer, of course, is that you killed two people and you're going to jail. There is no difference between taking company ink pens home and taking cash directly out of your bosses' wallet.

Stealing is stealing is stealing. The sugar coating you've attempted to put on it doesn't change the crap underneath.

I never once said I did it. That's just how it was when I was coming up.

 

[drbond24]

I never once said I did it. That's just how it was when I was coming up.

My apologies. When I read your post the first time I thought you were grouping yourself in with the juniors that took the wire. In re-reading it, I see that you did not. I'll be more careful next time.

Other than where they were directed, my comments remain valid though. I've seen lots of people use that arguement to steal things. One guy I was friends with in high school even got mad over getting fired for it. He thought since he was just minimum wage he was entitled to supplement his income with whatever he could get his hands on. Some people are just born with the attitude that the world owes them something, and that bothers people who work for what they have.

Again, I apologize for directing those comments at you.

 

[DanZ]

I would agree that ordering more than needed for an apprentice to keep is theft.

However, keeping scrap comes down to how the owner of the wire feels about it. If you order 100' of wire, use 99', and charge for 100', whoever you charge is the owner of the scrap. If you order 100', use 99', and charge for 99', than the business owner (or whoever pays for the wire) is the owner.

It could be a sketchy issue on some jobs. I know some people who would want to the scrap from their projects to recycle themselves, and some GCs that would try to get out of paying you because you stole their wire.

If you're not sure of your company's policy, or your GC's attitude, ask or don't take!

 

[tshea]

I guesstimated a job and included the scrap wire as part of the profit. Apprentice thought he was entitled to the wire, scrapped it and got close to $800.
Got near the end of the job and I asked about the "scrap wire." Apprentice was bragging he got $400 for all the wire. There are 2 bone yards. I called and found out real price and asked him where was my money? He already wizzed it away, so the deal was this: I swiped his credit card for the amount he STOLE from me and then gave him his just reward. Last I heard he had been fired two more times for the same thing--Theft!

 

[daleuger]

My apologies. When I read your post the first time I thought you were grouping yourself in with the juniors that took the wire. In re-reading it, I see that you did not. I'll be more careful next time.

Other than where they were directed, my comments remain valid though. I've seen lots of people use that arguement to steal things. One guy I was friends with in high school even got mad over getting fired for it. He thought since he was just minimum wage he was entitled to supplement his income with whatever he could get his hands on. Some people are just born with the attitude that the world owes them something, and that bothers people who work for what they have.

Again, I apologize for directing those comments at you.

Quite all right I don't think I made that completely clear at first. I was just saying that I've seen some foremen/journeymen do it.

 

[Rewire]

I have five vehicles a shop building and an office i have tools and material what I dont have is a million dollars and I wounder why people think I do. scrap has always gone to the men with one warning ,you abuse it you loose it.

 

[CopperTone]

I used to work for a shop with 25 electricians. Guys would order extra all the time for scrap, hide the scrap when the boss was coming on the job, take GFI's for side work. take MC wire for side jobs, etc. It is theft.

Now that I am on the other side of that, I know the margins in the bids I put out there and if I had a guy stealing stock for side work it would hurt. I think most jman who work for someone else don't realize that every receptacle and switch was counted on bid and transfered to a stock order. Wire is measured - roughly but close on estimating as well. Guys think - well the company makes millions they won't miss this - in some small cases this is true however, theft on a larger scale is noticeable.
It is the same when you have guys sitting around and not working when they are supposed to. labor charges are a killer when the work isn't getting done.

Last year I kept all the scrap, turned it in and paid for the company holiday party with that money - complete with drinks, limo, and a hell of a nice steak dinner for the employees.

 

[SEO]

I let my men divide the scrap (rabbit) and they know better than to measure and cut excessive wire pulls. Our company policy is to add a couple feet per run for pulls but not add extra for their pocket.

 

[George Stolz]

I called and found out real price and asked him where was my money? He already wizzed it away, so the deal was this: I swiped his credit card for the amount he STOLE from me and then gave him his just reward.

So, was he at least an entertaining cellmate?

 

[TOOL_5150]

I am the foreman for my company, and my apprentice and I collect the scraps - litterally scraps 1.5' and less usually way less. We try not to waste anything, but being too 'precise' can lead you to coming up short, then thats a lot of waste. On larger wire, any excess I wind up and keep for future use. Still have to moderate how much 'cut wire' we keep on the truck though. When I get a good amount of wire, I tstrip everything above #12 and take it in. Then use the money to take my apprentice out to lunch, which is good for everyone. Hes happy for the free lunch, therefore does good work all the time, which makes the company money.

~Matt

 

[greg y]

I would have to agree it is "THEFT" the company i am with keeps all the scrap and sells it and in turn gives it out equally to everyone or uses it for material to keep things going as needed.