Scrap wire

[brian john]

The contractor I used to work for in practice would fire people over taking even the smallest bit of scrap wire. However, not everyone agreed with this and it was pretty common practice on job sites for it to be divided up amongst the most junior apprentices as sort of a "supplement" to their low income. It really depended on who was running the job, who was around, circumstances etc, how much this went on but it did. They figured the company is already making millions what's a couple hundred here and there. Some wouldn't condone it at all, some would even go so far as to purposely order and extra 10 or 20 feet for feeders just for the apprentices. The company I'm at now I've noticed this doesn't really happen at all. Does this happen at yours? How do you feel about this practice?

So you are a thief? Standing by while employees are stealing make you culpable. I have heard all sorts of things from people caught stealing. While I worked 5 minutes OT and did not charge you as he tries to take a box of receptacles. Yeah what about all those days you came in late ands you were not docked.

 

[melanconelectric]

Does this happen at yours? How do you feel about this practice?

When copper was up so high this last yearI found it an everyday ordeal over scrap wire. I finally had to put my foot down over it when I realized that my guys have no couth. One day, I went in one of their trucks and found a box of scrap from that day stuffed behind the seat. Didn't fire anyone at this time. I contracted a 650K remodel lakehouse a few weeks later and this customer asked me to come do some work at another house they had. After work there one day, another employee brought a pair of snake proof rubber boots to me that he found stuffed under a seat of his truck that a guy (same one from before) had stolen. This jepordized not only the extra work, but the remod as well. Not only that but the contractor who is my biggest and busiest contractor. If anyone is stealing scrap wire, and thats what it is-stealing, they probably didn't stop with the wire!!

 

[ishium 80439]

It all comes down to company policy and the men ordering the wire. I certainly agree with the fact that having 5' too much is less expensive than being 6" too short. Of course that leads to the aforementioned problem of guys purposely ordering overages to cash them in a take a "tip" for themselves. I definately agree that is stealing. I have only personally witnessed 1 or 2 people who abused this.

The companies that I worked for generally did not want to deal w/ the scrap and let the guys divide it up in the field. It did not seem to be a large problem for them as the counts were generally pretty close (2'-4' extra). It kept the workers happy (mostly) and the bosses did not have to deal with it for what was usually a small sum. I varied on who got to keep it but generally it was just divided equally among the guys who helped w/ the pull.

On a related question where did the term "rabbit" come from? I never heard in CT and had no idea what they were talking about when I heard guys use it out here.

 

[Cow]

There's about 10 of us in our shop. Scrap wire is brought back and thrown in a bin for collection. The money is deposited into a checking account and used to pay for things like Christmas gift baskets for our good customers, employee shirts, hoodies, filling the shop fridge with soda, etc.

We have annual profit sharing checks also, so I'm sure if one of the guys found out somebody else was wasting money ordering extra wire just to keep the scrap, there'd be trouble.

 

[adamants]

scrap?

scrap?

i manage to reuse almost all of my scrap, you'd be surprised how handy a couple of feet piece of cable can be, anything smaller gets scrapped and pays for the xmas party.

 

[wireguru]

i cant believe anyone would think its ok to take scrap wire. I would have zero tolerance for that and prosecute anyone caught. Its no different than taking new material or tools or cash out of the register. Company is already losing money on whatever goes from the spool to the scrap yard.....

 

[emahler]

I guesstimated a job and included the scrap wire as part of the profit. Apprentice thought he was entitled to the wire, scrapped it and got close to $800.
Got near the end of the job and I asked about the "scrap wire." Apprentice was bragging he got $400 for all the wire. There are 2 bone yards. I called and found out real price and asked him where was my money? He already wizzed it away, so the deal was this: I swiped his credit card for the amount he STOLE from me and then gave him his just reward. Last I heard he had been fired two more times for the same thing--Theft!

i gotta ask....why spend $2/ft for wire, only to get <$1/ft for scrap and consider it part of the profit? wouldn't it be better to just not buy the extra wire and have 2x the profit?

 

[charlietuna]

Collecting scrap copper is a common sense issue. Coming up in the trade i have seen many issues concerning "rabbit" and it can almost get like a desease ! Lots of hard feelings between fellow workers too. I have worked for contractors who collected it in the shop and then had a party while others put the money in their pocket-but that was their perogative in my opinion. When i went in business i allowed the apprentices to split the "rabbit" as long as it was handled fair, and didn't effect the job's operation. They collected it, and they burnt it on their time and sold it on their time. Usable wire was returned to the shop -- we had a system to identify and hang wire in the shop with a inventory sheet. This wire was available to anyone needing wire for services at no charge. This included other trades. When this supply began to get full, we would have a few apprentices come in on a Satruday and thin it down-splitting the money with all the apprentices in the shop. This system worked for us.

 

[MAK]

After reading this thread I can see how allowing scrap wire to be managed by any and or everyone in the field without any over site could create a dishonest culture in the company.
I think that the owner of the company would be more inclined to give reward to his work force if he did not feel that his workers were abusing his trust.

My employers have treated myself and other workers well when they know we are making every effort to save the company money.JMSO.

 

[zbang]

It really doesn't matter what you do with it as long as there are rules and everyone plays by them. It's kind of like using the office copy machine- would anyone get bent out of shape if somebody made a couple of copies? In one place I worked, they officially didn't care about a couple of copies at a time, and if you needed to make 200 for your son's school, it's OK if you bring your own paper. Worked out well- no one ever tried to sneak in their personal copying. You were also allowed to use the company's account at a couple of suppliers if you left a check the next day on the bookkeeper's desk. And no one abused this.

You can do something like for scrap- small amounts are OK to 'loose' but anything longer than XX feet or larger than XX guage comes back to the shop. A few spot checks, if needed, and everyone gets the idea. It's all about having rules and playing by them.

It's also like the shop 'fridge. Take a soda for today but not a six-pack for the weekend.

 

[DanZ]

All this talk about scrap got me thinking, what do you guys do with your junk parts? I'm not talking about extra parts that were ordered for a job, but what do you do with the old pushmatic panels and the like? Do you keep them? Do your workers get them?

 

[tshea]

It's also like the shop 'fridge. Take a soda for today but not a six-pack for the weekend.

One of my industrial customers has a shop soda machine full of soda. Employees or visitors can get a free soda; just hit the button and out pops a soda. He was working one Saturday in his office and heard the faint sound of the soda machine-kachunk, kachunk, kachunk, kachunk...He went to investigate. There was a guy with a cooler filling it up for a family party! THAT was his last day. Turns out that was just the tip of the iceberg on this guy. Guess he wanted some of the "millions" my customer doesn't have!!

 

[tonyou812]

One of my industrial customers has a shop soda machine full of soda. Employees or visitors can get a free soda; just hit the button and out pops a soda. He was working one Saturday in his office and heard the faint sound of the soda machine-kachunk, kachunk, kachunk, kachunk...He went to investigate. There was a guy with a cooler filling it up for a family party! THAT was his last day. Turns out that was just the tip of the iceberg on this guy. Guess he wanted some of the "millions" my customer doesn't have!!

I just goes to show you, there almost always seems to be the one dude that just doesnt get it and probably never will.

 

[Mr. Wizard]

All this talk about scrap got me thinking, what do you guys do with your junk parts? I'm not talking about extra parts that were ordered for a job, but what do you do with the old pushmatic panels and the like? Do you keep them? Do your workers get them?

When I was doing energy mangement, I would demo out the old system, install the new, and ask what the customer wanted to do with the old system. If they wanted it, I'd box it up and give it to them. If they said trash it, it went on e-bay. I've used demo'd out starters and relays, contactors, limit switches for training before. Mount them to a wall and teach how they inter-connect and why.

 

[Rewire]

One of my industrial customers has a shop soda machine full of soda. Employees or visitors can get a free soda; just hit the button and out pops a soda. He was working one Saturday in his office and heard the faint sound of the soda machine-kachunk, kachunk, kachunk, kachunk...He went to investigate. There was a guy with a cooler filling it up for a family party! THAT was his last day. Turns out that was just the tip of the iceberg on this guy. Guess he wanted some of the "millions" my customer doesn't have!!

This is the reason for those labels on hair dryers telling you not to use them while you sleep because some fool did. Now this guy will have to have a "rule" about not filling coolers.

 

[Kdog76]

I'd rather be looking at it than for it :grin:

That's a good one, may just have to add (steal) that one to my bag of one-liners. l

 

[sparky 134]

Someone I used to work with (we'll call him Tim) told me a story a short time back. He was doing a big commercial job and talked with the electrical inspector about using aluminum wire instead of copper. The inspector said ok.

So later on that day the superintendant came out to the jobsite and Tim informed the superintendant of the conversation he had with the electrical inspector. The superintendant was thrilled due to the cost of copper at the time. So the superintendant told Tim to go ahead and resize the conduit and wire. To do this Tim ordered an Ugly's book from the supply house with his material order for the day.

Two days later the superintendant showed up and said, "I noticed you ordered an Ugly's book with your material order."

"Yes, I needed it to resize the conduit and wire."

"We will be deducting the cost of the book from your check. We don't pay for things like that."

Now the shop just saved a lot of money due to Tim's initiative but was obviously ungrateful. Tim walked out with a LOT of spools of wire at the end of that day.

Now I don't condone theft but what was the shop thinking ? A $12.00 dollar book was more important ?

 

[Mr. Wizard]

Someone I used to work with (we'll call him Tim) told me a story a short time back. He was doing a big commercial job and talked with the electrical inspector about using aluminum wire instead of copper. The inspector said ok.

So later on that day the superintendant came out to the jobsite and Tim informed the superintendant of the conversation he had with the electrical inspector. The superintendant was thrilled due to the cost of copper at the time. So the superintendant told Tim to go ahead and resize the conduit and wire. To do this Tim ordered an Ugly's book from the supply house with his material order for the day.

Two days later the superintendant showed up and said, "I noticed you ordered an Ugly's book with your material order."

"Yes, I needed it to resize the conduit and wire."

"We will be deducting the cost of the book from your check. We don't pay for things like that."

Now the shop just saved a lot of money due to Tim's initiative but was obviously ungrateful. Tim walked out with a LOT of spools of wire at the end of that day.

Now I don't condone theft but what was the shop thinking ? A $12.00 dollar book was more important ?

I absolutely do not agree with stealing on any level, but that is kind of funny . Bosses like that will make even an honest man turn into a vindictive bastard.

 

[SiddMartin]

Someone I used to work with (we'll call him Tim) told me a story a short time back. He was doing a big commercial job and talked with the electrical inspector about using aluminum wire instead of copper. The inspector said ok.

So later on that day the superintendant came out to the jobsite and Tim informed the superintendant of the conversation he had with the electrical inspector. The superintendant was thrilled due to the cost of copper at the time. So the superintendant told Tim to go ahead and resize the conduit and wire. To do this Tim ordered an Ugly's book from the supply house with his material order for the day.

Two days later the superintendant showed up and said, "I noticed you ordered an Ugly's book with your material order."

"Yes, I needed it to resize the conduit and wire."

"We will be deducting the cost of the book from your check. We don't pay for things like that."

Now the shop just saved a lot of money due to Tim's initiative but was obviously ungrateful. Tim walked out with a LOT of spools of wire at the end of that day.

Now I don't condone theft but what was the shop thinking ? A $12.00 dollar book was more important ?

I completly agree with you, the only issue I see is that the employee felt he was obligated to have it paid for. If he would have asked first, maybe the employer would have paid for it with a smile. Now, if I would have asked and they said "NO", then I would be ticked

 

[George Stolz]

Now the shop just saved a lot of money due to Tim's initiative but was obviously ungrateful. Tim walked out with a LOT of spools of wire at the end of that day.

Now I don't condone theft but what was the shop thinking ? A $12.00 dollar book was more important ?

My thought upon reading the story is, what was Tim thinking? He should own a copy of the NEC, and it sure wasn't his shop's responsibility to pay for the Ugly's book. They sure don't deserve being ripped off for pointing that out.

Also, how did he save the shop money? 5% of $30,000 is greater than 5% of $15,000. He probably cost the shop $750 that day, not even counting for his time re-engineering the job while on the clock.

I'd say Tim is a prime candidate for Down The Road Electric, Inc, IMO.