SE Cable to a Sub Panel

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Mule said:
What about the wiring method? A church is a "Place of Assembly" which would be fire rated construction. Would SE cable be permisable wiring method?
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Well I called it a church but it is a seperate building where the church goers hang out after church. It is where kids go to sunday school. It even has a small stage and a kitchen to cook meals for parties. Don't know what the occupancy count is approved for but I would guess around 100. The building is old and all wood construction.

The existing branch circuits in the subpanel are all BX and romex. Doesn't mean it's right. A lot of the work is done there by untrained volunteers.

The circuits I am providing are in EMT and MC so that should be good, but now I need to figure out the answer to your question. Can I replace the SEU feeding the subpanel with SER or do I need an armoured cable?

If romex and other non-armoured cables are not permissable then they have big problems because it is scattered all over the building.
 
mkgrady said:
Well I called it a church but it is a seperate building where the church goers hang out after church. It is where kids go to sunday school. It even has a small stage and a kitchen to cook meals for parties. Don't know what the occupancy count is approved for but I would guess around 100. The building is old and all wood construction.

The existing branch circuits in the subpanel are all BX and romex. Doesn't mean it's right. A lot of the work is done there by untrained volunteers.

The circuits I am providing are in EMT and MC so that should be good, but now I need to figure out the answer to your question. Can I replace the SEU feeding the subpanel with SER or do I need an armoured cable?

If romex and other non-armoured cables are not permissable then they have big problems because it is scattered all over the building.
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It's not uncommon to have commercial buildings that are wood framing be wired in romex. It may not be up to code now but that doesn't mean that you have to bring it up to code just because you are adding a few circuits. I would use SER to re-feed the sub-panel if I were you. Just my opinion.
 
mkgrady said:
Well I called it a church but it is a seperate building where the church goers hang out after church. It is where kids go to sunday school. It even has a small stage and a kitchen to cook meals for parties. Don't know what the occupancy count is approved for but I would guess around 100. The building is old and all wood construction.

The existing branch circuits in the subpanel are all BX and romex. Doesn't mean it's right. A lot of the work is done there by untrained volunteers.

The circuits I am providing are in EMT and MC so that should be good, but now I need to figure out the answer to your question. Can I replace the SEU feeding the subpanel with SER or do I need an armoured cable?

If romex and other non-armoured cables are not permissable then they have big problems because it is scattered all over the building.
Click to expand...

Maybe someone sharper than I can say for sure, but my memory says that a "Place of Assembly" is a structure utilized for a occupany of 150 or more. And its my understanding that has not changed for many years.....

Volunteers, God Bless them, sometimes create serious code violations. I personaly bought a church home, and had a fire as a result of previous church volunteer work...got my three daughters out, but when I found out the root cause I was furious........Mr. "wanta be" electricians can cause funerals.....
 
Mule said:
Maybe someone sharper than I can say for sure, but my memory says that a "Place of Assembly" is a structure utilized for a occupany of 150 or more. And its my understanding that has not changed for many years.....
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Memory check for you...
In Article 518, 518.2 it states 100 persons.

Some local jurisdictions may modify that, such as in NYS. In NYS it is 50, not 100.
 
mkgrady said:
Well I called it a church but it is a seperate building where the church goers hang out after church. QUOTE]

Before the 2008 NEC it was compliant to reground the neutral at a seperate building under

certian conditions. I don't have a 2005 book anymore, and I have forgotten the Article and

Section, maybe someone else can take it from here.
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Mule said:
So would the SE cable be allowed in a Place of Assembly or not?
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No but maybe kind of.:smile:

The SE can not be used as a wiring method within the place of a assembly but it often can be used in the building.

Take a good size church, the sanctuary might be a place of assembly but the offices, bathrooms, hallways, storage rooms etc would not be places of assembly. If those areas are separated by firewalls from the sanctuary then it could be possible to use NM cables.
 
benaround said:
mkgrady said:
Well I called it a church but it is a seperate building where the church goers hang out after church. QUOTE]

Before the 2008 NEC it was compliant to reground the neutral at a seperate building under

certian conditions. I don't have a 2005 book anymore, and I have forgotten the Article and

Section, maybe someone else can take it from here.
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The church is across the street. This is a stand alone building with its own service. The subpanel is in an addition to this building
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mkgrady said:
benaround said:
The church is across the street. This is a stand alone building with its own service. The subpanel is in an addition to this building
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So..your saying that the "stand alone building", does not occupy >100 people?

I know of one church, acually where I used to be a member, where they are land locked for expansion. They purchased a 3800 sqft house that backs up to the church's property. They use is for a youth hang out. I dont personaly have a problem with it, but I can guarantee that times the have alot of kids in there in reguard to fire codes.
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