SE Cable

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hde_electric

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Will Somebody give some input on the uses of SE Cable. Where can I find The several types of cables, wire, and their classifications and uses.
 
Re: SE Cable

Awwt,
I've always belived that type SE cable was only aluminum as well, however on a recent project that turned bad I learned otherwise. The project engineer of a housing project specified on plans to use 2/3 SER cable for the main feeders to each unit. The owner later discovered that we were using Aluminum cable and demanded copper only.
After it was discovered that a type SER cable is made in copper ( although not avaliable) we were forced to change out all the cable to type NM copper.
 
Re: SE Cable

I would be interested in seeing a source for type 2/3 w/g SE copper. At the supply house I have only of late observed them stocking 2/3 SE Alum. or 2/3 NM Copper. Years ago I thought I was buying SE copper, but if I could go back and check maybe it was actually NM copper.

There is an interesting graphic of the week on Mikeholt.com in that because of NM vs. SE on first glance you could use a smaller aluminum conductor vs. a copper conductor-- but the graphic does not mention if it's copper or aluminum SE:

6_31_63_1_2.gif


[ October 02, 2003, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
 
Re: SE Cable

Distributors in this area stock SER in aluminum only. However they do stock SEU in copper and aluminum.
 
Re: SE Cable

Just to make this boring :D thread more interesting!!!

The NYS Residential Building Code, which is the document ALL electricians in NYS are REQUIRED to follow for one and two family dwelling installations(other than NYC), has an interesting code requirement.

Aluminum Conductors CANNOT be used for Equipment Grounding Conductors.
This rules out using any Aluminum cable assemblies from use in NYS. This was effective Jan 1st 2003. As my father use to say: "How about them apples".

Pierre

[ October 04, 2003, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
 
Re: SE Cable

I have been in contact with NYS about a lot of issues dealing with this new document that NY electricians are to follow, and they have not returned an answer yet about the Al grounding conductor issue. They are aware that it might be a problem though.


Want another NYS bombshell?
The NYS Residential Building Code also requires that ALL products that we install for electrical work are required to be listed.

I called and spoke to them and they put out an 'advisory letter'. The letter states that all products (I am paraphrasing) are required to be listed. I called again and asked if this included straps and supports and they said yes, I then asked them what do we do if there are no listed products available for the type of work. They responded with " we will get back to you".

If you are performing electrical installations in NYS, learning what is in this document is paramount. I am not saying I agree with all of the requirements, but you should be aware of them. The two that I have posted are only part of the changes that are mandatory language in NYS.
There are many more, and this document is only one of 8. If you are interested in purchasing one, www.constructionbook.com is one location that I know of to buy them. I have no affiliation with this company, I just know that it is available there.

Pierre

[ October 04, 2003, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
 
Re: SE Cable

Last month I got flogged for stating that some jurisdictions will require anything beyond a nail or screw to be listed. Now I can back that statement up with the NYS code :)

Thanks Pierre!
 
Re: SE Cable

How many of the support devices that we use are listed? I don't recall seeing a lising symbol on strut and strut straps.
Don
 
Re: SE Cable

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for the aluminum cable manufacturers to get this repealed on restraint of trade issues.

I would think for this requirement to last there will need to be documented proof the modern aluminum cable is substandard.

Good luck to you NY guys on the listed supports, would that include UL listings on fender washers plastic anchors etc.

Then of course is the wall UL listed to support the supports? :D

[ October 04, 2003, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: SE Cable

Will all electrical work in NYS come to a screeching halt while all the manufacturers scramble to get their products listed?

How about cost? $5 each for "listed" emt straps. :p

Russell
 
Re: SE Cable

one more and than I will let it rest.

I am only paraphrasing, if you are interested in my posting the exact language, ask and I will.

IF a PERMIT is issued in NYS, than the building official (the AHJ in NYS) is suppose to make a determination if smoke detectors are required, and if they are required to be INTERCONNECTED.

Notice how I wrote PERMIT. The language in NY is now Permit. This term covers Building Permit, Plumbing Permit, HVAC permit, Electrical Permit, etc....
If any of these permits are pulled on a job, smoke detectors may be required to be added to the dwelling.

Lets say that a plumber pulls a permit for two bathrooms and a laundry room, no electrical work is required for that job. Now the building department will make a determination as to whether or not smokes are required. Lets also say that the basement and attic are unfinished. If the determination is that smokes are required the NYS code will require them to be inteconnected. I say WOW :eek: !!!
That is one example of the many ways that this new document can sneak up on you if you are unaware.

Pierre
 
Re: SE Cable

Originally posted by pierre:
one more and than I will let it rest.
Pierre
Click to expand...
Shoot Pierre don't stop this is interesting. :)

Plus it makes me feel lucky that I do not have codes like this to deal with. :D
 
Re: SE Cable

I know I said one more, but for NY electricians, this is important.

New York State did not adopt the 99 NEC. The law is complicated, but does not allow NYS to adopt anyones codes, so they 'adjusted' the 99 NEC and the NYS Residential Building code is the result of that law/process.

I am unsure as to the future, but they may never refer to the 2002 NEC, and it could be years before this document changes.
Prior to this change (2003), the State was referring to the '93 NEC. That is ten years to change :mad: RIDICULOUS!!!

Pierre
 
Re: SE Cable

Truly interested in mike Holt's graphic of the week posted below by awwt .......

How can this play with 1999 NEC's
Section 110-14(c) ?

My personal experience is that Siemens or Square D does not make a breaker (inverse time) or a disconnect switch rated 75?C in the obvious less than 100 amp ratings depicted. I realize that is not the only manufacturers.

I am not aware of anybody that makes equipment that makes this picture legal for 1999 NEC.

This just doesn't look right to me .......
any input would be appreciated .......

mweaver
 
Re: SE Cable

You bring up an important point that all must be rated for 75C.

Many breakers I deal with are rated 75C, GE THQL breakers are rated 60C/75C even on 15 amp ones.

You may want to look again at a new Square D or Siemens to see if they have gotten the higher temp listing.

As for the load end just ask for a lug rated 75C or one that can take a 1/0 but is still listed for 6 awg as used in the example.
 
Re: SE Cable

I'm on a roll!!

This is pretty interesting. The NEC is a consensus document, NY's is not. I was searching the NYS website for info, and this is one item I found.
If you would like to discuss this at a meeting with them, they say there is some kind of meeting twice a month, great!! I found the schedule and location for the meetings. The meetings were discontinued in 2000. That is 2 years before the document became law, interesting.

I will say one thing in favor of NY. If you call the State office, you will get a live person and in most instances they will give you an unofficial answer. If you need an interpretation, it could take 30 days.

HEE! HEE! a couple of more tidbits. Required switch locations, pool requirements, fixture locations, foot candle requirements for fixtures. These and more are covered in NY.

Wait thought all you had to do was read it?

There are times when you use the NYS Residential Building Code, and there are times when you have to determine when to use the '99 NEC. This is covered in the scope of the Residential Code. Some guys are very frustrated trying to figure out these requirements.


There is one way around most of this mess. Remember codes are minimum requirements, go beyond the minimum and you will cover your behind 'MOST' of the time. But... what about bidding work?
And you wanted to be an electrician.

There is a 'silver lining' to this cloud, which I will discuss at another time.

Pierre
 
Re: SE Cable

And NY State wonders why industry is leaving? In the heavily taxed over regulated state's (CA also) these codes won't be needed as there won't be any building going on.
 
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