Second floor thermostats

Merry Christmas
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quogueelectric

quogueelectric

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new york
I live in the northeast where the winters are pretty harsh. I have a customer who has complaints about the downstairs heat rising up to satisfy the upstairs t-stat and never turns on the upstairs zone when the doors are closed. Would moving the upstairs t-stat into master bedroom be a good idea to get a truer representation of the real heat output for that zone?? Is this an acceptable solution to the problem?? any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. MERRY CHRISTMAS Quogue Electric
 
if the thermostat is located in the hall or something the heat from downstairs can probably effect it. moving the thermostat into the master bedroom could be a good idea.
 
more here

more here

quogueelectric said:
MERRY CHRISTMAS Quogue Electric
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SELECTING LOCATION
The proper location of the room thermostat is most important to insure that it will provide a comfortable home temperature. Observe the following general rules when selecting a location:
  1. Locate it about 5 ft. above the floor.
  2. Install it on a partitioning wall, not on an outside wall.
  3. Never expose it to direct light from lamps, sun, fireplaces, etc.
  4. Avoid locations close to doors that lead outside, windows, or adjoining outside walls.
  5. Avoid locations close to radiators, warm air registers, or in the direct path of heat from them.
  6. Make sure there are no pipes or duct work in that part of the wall chosen for the thermostat location.
  7. Never locate it in a room that is warmer or cooler than the rest of the home, such as kitchen or hallway.
  8. The living or dining room is normally a good location, provided there is no cooking range or refrigerator on opposite side of wall.
I chose this from Here
 
Sounds more like a duct design issue (poor return), but moving the stat will band-aid the problem. Moving it to the MBR will make the MBR nice, but will necessarily overheat the area of the upstairs where the stat was formerly located.
 
yes hydronic system

yes hydronic system

I generally dont like to take on more liability than I have to like designing a heating system. Yet sometimes you need to come up with a solution for a customer. 99 out of 100 systems have the upstairs tstat in the common hallway in my experience and I have only seen this to be an issue on a few occasions. This is not designing the O ring for the space shuttle but I just wanted to run this by a couple of other experienced people before I went with my initial solution . The 4 bedrooms upstairs have the sme #of windows and aprox the same # of ft of baseboard so I think the tstat in the bedroom will give good general more acurate temp response for the 4 bedrooms. The local registers can be shut down to regulate idividual rooms more acurately. I will go with this but it will take at least a week or more before I can get to it. You just never know what you will run across in this buisness you have to know everything about everything.
 
the problem in a nutshell: air convects. that's to say, with a convection system (of any kind), in a multi story building (without doors separating the floors), there is going to be a problem. the solution with ducted systems is to equalize the air density by moving the air up or down (and this isn't even implemented properly in most systems). Most north eastern houses I've been in only had a good working system if they had a basement (basement really heats the 1st floor, 1st floor heats the 2nd). You can add zones, thermostatdts, etc. but it will never be perfect. you can even do some nice crazy stuff like putting a thermostatically ducted system to move 2nd floor air down to 1st floor in winter, but like marc said, its a design flaw and whatever you do (moving one stadt around) is just going to be a band aid. (of course, if the band aid is enough, then that's ok too).
 
quogueelectric said:
You just never know what you will run across in this buisness you have to know everything about everything.
Click to expand...
Yep, most electricians I know are more than capable of being the GC's project supervisor.
 
quogueelectric said:
I have a customer who has complaints about the downstairs heat rising up to satisfy the upstairs t-stat and never turns on the upstairs zone when the doors are closed.
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So the problem is that the heat from the downstairs zone is keeping the upstairs T-stat satisfied?

I'd also like to know if this is a forced-air or hydronic heating system before going on.
 
quogueelectric said:
the downstairs heat rising up to satisfy the upstairs t-stat and never turns on the upstairs zone when the doors are closed.
Click to expand...

Easy fix. Keep the doors open. It is very hard to get even heat with doors closed. I also like trevor's idea to raise the thermostat setting a little higher upstairs. That would be my solution.
 
quogueelectric said:
I live in the northeast where the winters are pretty harsh. I have a customer who has complaints about the downstairs heat rising up to satisfy the upstairs t-stat and never turns on the upstairs zone when the doors are closed. Would moving the upstairs t-stat into master bedroom be a good idea to get a truer representation of the real heat output for that zone?? Is this an acceptable solution to the problem?? any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. MERRY CHRISTMAS Quogue Electric
Click to expand...

Quog
This is almost never a "winning" situation for you. If this is an older home, or a poorly designed heated newer home, you will need to explain to your customer you will try but provide no guarantee to the work. It may take a couple of times moving the Tstat to improve the situation. Good luck
 
I love the wireless t-stat idea. Tell your customer to have his wife sew the t-stat remote on to her sweater, then whereever she goes in the house it will be the right temp (not familiar with the wireless tstats - she may need a small level too if it has the micro merc switches lol)
 
lol been down this road. we worked on a state of art bldg with 3 stage heat and cool package unit on roof. all offices had vav's with remote stats. in one office the women were too cold, next office too hot. the unit was flopping back and forth from heat to ac (it had economizer) and it was killing the client (who also had office on same floor). they fixed it by disabling the two stats - the women never knew any different, but they could play with the stats all they wanted hehe
 
The following thermostat location rules posted earlier are good "engineering" or fact based criteria for the installation of a thermostat. I have recopied these below and they very good.

However HVAC comfort is subjective as well as objective issue.

1. Locate it about 5 ft. above the floor.
2. Install it on a partitioning wall, not on an outside wall.
3. Never expose it to direct light from lamps, sun, fireplaces, etc.
4. Avoid locations close to doors that lead outside, windows, or adjoining outside walls.
5. Avoid locations close to radiators, warm air registers, or in the direct path of heat from them.
6. Make sure there are no pipes or duct work in that part of the wall chosen for the thermostat location.
7. Never locate it in a room that is warmer or cooler than the rest of the home, such as kitchen or hallway.
8. The living or dining room is normally a good location, provided there is no cooking range or refrigerator on opposite side of wall.

One of the earlier posts alluded to a none functioning thermostat that made the occupants happy.

One of the most important rules in HVAC is to remember it is a emotional topic as well as a factual topic.

I would suggest placing the thermostat in the master bedroom reguardless of the engineering implacations as the occupants of the master bedroom are most likely the ones who you must satisfy and they pay the energy bill.

I also lke the wireless thermostat as it gives many options.
 
it is line voltage

it is line voltage

I am pushing for a low voltage argo or taco 3 zone priority switch in case of superstore addition future. I wil move the t stat as soon as I have time for now. low voltage is so much more precision controled.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Easy fix. Keep the doors open.
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If they don't like the doors open, knock holes above doors and install vent covers. We had to do that here at home because the air just doesn't get back to the return with the doors closed.

I know it isn't electrical, but like you said, sometimes we just do what has to be done.

One day a few weeks ago, a [good] client of ours asked if we could send out two guys to assemble shelving. "Two electricians? We'd have to charge the normal rate..."

"That's fine. I can't get anyone else to do it for me."

The guys spent a good 8 hour day there, and got a free lunch to boot. (it was a restaurant.) No permits, no inspections either!
 
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