Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
- Thread starter coppertreeelectric
- Start date
- Status
jjhoward
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern NJ
- Occupation
- Owner TJ Electric
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
Hi Steve,
Nice work. Did you get this done in 2 hrs by yourself? If yes, you have some pretty quick hands. The $600 for the meter pan and overhead service conductors is right on the money (could be even more depending on the lenght, Al or CU, SEU or conduit)The other charges $150 for hook-up-yup we charge $200, $155 emergency response fee (Ok, amortize that over the trip time and the actual work time probably about $50/hr premium..OK for ER work)Sounds right to me. There is tremoundous value in what you able to do. The quick response time has value as well. You can't get this type of service for cheap! BTW, what to do you use to connect the lines at the point of attachment?
Hi Steve,
Nice work. Did you get this done in 2 hrs by yourself? If yes, you have some pretty quick hands. The $600 for the meter pan and overhead service conductors is right on the money (could be even more depending on the lenght, Al or CU, SEU or conduit)The other charges $150 for hook-up-yup we charge $200, $155 emergency response fee (Ok, amortize that over the trip time and the actual work time probably about $50/hr premium..OK for ER work)Sounds right to me. There is tremoundous value in what you able to do. The quick response time has value as well. You can't get this type of service for cheap! BTW, what to do you use to connect the lines at the point of attachment?
coppertreeelectric
Senior Member
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
We use Fargo's to do the taps.
Yes I did the job by myself, It was a race against day light.
We use Fargo's to do the taps.
jjhoward
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern NJ
- Occupation
- Owner TJ Electric
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
I am not familiar with Fargo's. What are they?
I am not familiar with Fargo's. What are they?
coppertreeelectric
Senior Member
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
Next time you go into the supply house ask them to show you one. The local utility uses them for tap-ons also.
Just an FYI: Never do a tap-on without the properly insulated rubber linesman gloves and leather protectors.
Steve
jj, I tried to find a website or picture for you but had no luck. A Fargo (Trade term) or a Farga (the actual part name) is a two sided parallel clamp with one bolt head to use a socket for clamping. The service cable inserts in one end and the utility feed in from the other end. The cables lay side by side with a divider. The clamp is made up of all metal and requires a "Fargo Cover" that is made out of plastic. For a single phase service it would require 3 "Fargo's" 2 for the hot and one for the neutral. They come in different sizes depending on the service size or your wire size.
Next time you go into the supply house ask them to show you one. The local utility uses them for tap-ons also.
Just an FYI: Never do a tap-on without the properly insulated rubber linesman gloves and leather protectors.
Steve
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
Look Here:
http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/powertest/fargo/fargo.html
Look Here:
http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/powertest/fargo/fargo.html
speedypetey
Senior Member
- Location
- Hudson Valley, NY
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
Have you done a cost analysis for one? Service replacements are high $$ compared to T&M. This is a fact in our industry. Same thing as a plumber charging $4000 to replace a $2500 boiler and 1.5 days of labor. It is just SOP.
Why are you so adamant about the net cost??
How much do you charge to do a 200 amp service change???
Have you done a cost analysis for one? Service replacements are high $$ compared to T&M. This is a fact in our industry. Same thing as a plumber charging $4000 to replace a $2500 boiler and 1.5 days of labor. It is just SOP.
Why are you so adamant about the net cost??
tx2step
Senior Member
- Location
- North Texas, DFW area
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
Coppertree -- I looked at the Fargo catalog at the site that Nick provided above. I couldn't find anything that was called a "Farga".
I did find a couple of things that may be what you are describing. In their product catalog, Section DD:
GA9000 series vise type single bolt clamp (page DD-1)
LC-50 series parallel grove center bolt clamp (page DD-20)
Is either of these the clamp that you use?
I'm in Texas, and the terminology that you are using isn't used here.
If I haven't found what you use, would you please provide the catalog number -- I'd like to be using something that works well, and whatever you are using must work well for you. There are too many different types of products available to just guess at it.
Thanks!
Coppertree -- I looked at the Fargo catalog at the site that Nick provided above. I couldn't find anything that was called a "Farga".
I did find a couple of things that may be what you are describing. In their product catalog, Section DD:
GA9000 series vise type single bolt clamp (page DD-1)
LC-50 series parallel grove center bolt clamp (page DD-20)
Is either of these the clamp that you use?
I'm in Texas, and the terminology that you are using isn't used here.
If I haven't found what you use, would you please provide the catalog number -- I'd like to be using something that works well, and whatever you are using must work well for you. There are too many different types of products available to just guess at it.
Thanks!
jjhoward
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern NJ
- Occupation
- Owner TJ Electric
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
I have a Greenlee manual crimper, it works fine, but up on a ladder it can get a little cumbersome. 'Specially when you hit that messenger wire with the tool while crimping. YES, the crimper DOES go through the plastic shell of the ILSCO crimp! A fine display for those on the ground (with great sound effects too, from ME and the arc!)
I have switched to the rubber coated splices made by Greaves.
Here is a pic of 3 in/3 out connector good for troughs. http://community.webshots.com/photo/311994592/311997238UnRbjn
The line splices have a single opening on either end. There is a hex head screw that you tighten down on the wire. They are pre-filled with anti-oxide stuff.
I have a Greenlee manual crimper, it works fine, but up on a ladder it can get a little cumbersome. 'Specially when you hit that messenger wire with the tool while crimping. YES, the crimper DOES go through the plastic shell of the ILSCO crimp! A fine display for those on the ground (with great sound effects too, from ME and the arc!)
I have switched to the rubber coated splices made by Greaves.
Here is a pic of 3 in/3 out connector good for troughs. http://community.webshots.com/photo/311994592/311997238UnRbjn
The line splices have a single opening on either end. There is a hex head screw that you tighten down on the wire. They are pre-filled with anti-oxide stuff.
speedypetey
Senior Member
- Location
- Hudson Valley, NY
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
I am in Steve's area and I use the Fargo's he is referring to all the time.
They are a clamp type connector with a plastic clam shell cover. Typical of any triplex mechanical splice connectors.
[ April 02, 2005, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: speedypetey ]
I am in Steve's area and I use the Fargo's he is referring to all the time.
They are a clamp type connector with a plastic clam shell cover. Typical of any triplex mechanical splice connectors.
[ April 02, 2005, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: speedypetey ]
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
speedy: i was trying to figure if he was actually getting $400 an hour or not, of course, not including driving time.
there are the jokes about the young lawyer who dies and gets to the pearly gates and asks why he died, only to be told by St pete that according to billed hours he was 95.
put your ad in the paper, do one 2 hour emergency a day, 5 days a week, and gross $225,000 a year just on the emergencies. Don't need to really work, just put out a lot of ads.
paul
speedy: i was trying to figure if he was actually getting $400 an hour or not, of course, not including driving time.
there are the jokes about the young lawyer who dies and gets to the pearly gates and asks why he died, only to be told by St pete that according to billed hours he was 95.
put your ad in the paper, do one 2 hour emergency a day, 5 days a week, and gross $225,000 a year just on the emergencies. Don't need to really work, just put out a lot of ads.
paul
jjhoward
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern NJ
- Occupation
- Owner TJ Electric
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
Thanks for the info Steve, Speedy and tx2.
I have the pdf data sheets for the Fargos(LC-50s) and their covers.
Thanks.
Thanks for the info Steve, Speedy and tx2.
I have the pdf data sheets for the Fargos(LC-50s) and their covers.
Thanks.
coppertreeelectric
Senior Member
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
apauling
Why does a car that cost $10000 to build cost $35000 to the buyer?
Why is a doctors visit $75 even if I am only in there for 10 minutes?
Use your brain, your sounding stupid...
apauling
Why does a real-estate salesperson make $20000 on a house sale that required 3hrs of work?
Why does a car that cost $10000 to build cost $35000 to the buyer?
Why is a doctors visit $75 even if I am only in there for 10 minutes?
Use your brain, your sounding stupid...
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
The charges seem reasonable to me. After I was laid off from my job and lost health coverage I had a mishap and put a 3/4" gouge in my forearm that needed some stitches. That's a 3/4" cut but about 1/4" deep. Anyway, after about 45 minutes in the ER the bill amounted to over 1000 dollars! I couldn't believe it. I know of course some would say i'm comparing apples to oranges but just some food for thought. We are professionals working in dangerous situations at a highly skilled level and we should be compensated as professionals. Let's not sell our profession short.
The charges seem reasonable to me. After I was laid off from my job and lost health coverage I had a mishap and put a 3/4" gouge in my forearm that needed some stitches. That's a 3/4" cut but about 1/4" deep. Anyway, after about 45 minutes in the ER the bill amounted to over 1000 dollars! I couldn't believe it. I know of course some would say i'm comparing apples to oranges but just some food for thought. We are professionals working in dangerous situations at a highly skilled level and we should be compensated as professionals. Let's not sell our profession short.
tryinghard
Senior Member
- Location
- California
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
I usually kept 3 technicians full time on service work, and in this we would do a service change every two weeks on average, this is rural California. Our price ranged from $900-$2000 and the client purchases the permit. All jobs are priced before we render service, NEVER T&M.
It is best to pass rather than provide T&M. T&M is a "lose-lose" situation, you will always compromise your costs and the client will never understand the costs of your repair, in other words you are submitting your costs to your client for their approval? Even if they have been in the trades they no NOTHING about legal application.
Keep in mind if you are a one man shop ALL your labor charge is profit, NONE of it is cost, if you charge $5 @ hour this is $5 @ hour profit $60 @ hour is ALL profit in a one man shop, you will find this out through taxes and your CPA. It is untrue to say "my job costs like: gas, truck, small tools...are in this rate," this is the most common statement yet look at the 3rd word in this statement. It is more accurate to say something like, "this is our shop rate" but with this you are not submitting your cost!
If you are a company with staff you have costs associated with company labor rate. If you pay a technician $25 you will have an additional 22% so this example the labor cost is $30.50 per hour minimum, and in this example at $60 @ hour shop rate the company made a gross profit of about $29.50 per hour. ALL time incurred to you is attributed to the service rendered, you should NEVER split tasks out like purchasing,?unless you pay this way but again if you stay out of the T&M world you won?t need to worry about this.
The equation is not as simple (nor is it accurate at all) as picking a rate and multiplying it annually, if you are a business you are responsible to choose accurately based on your demographics, if you don?t you will not exist into the future very far, luck does not exist long here only viability.
I usually kept 3 technicians full time on service work, and in this we would do a service change every two weeks on average, this is rural California. Our price ranged from $900-$2000 and the client purchases the permit. All jobs are priced before we render service, NEVER T&M.
It is best to pass rather than provide T&M. T&M is a "lose-lose" situation, you will always compromise your costs and the client will never understand the costs of your repair, in other words you are submitting your costs to your client for their approval? Even if they have been in the trades they no NOTHING about legal application.
Keep in mind if you are a one man shop ALL your labor charge is profit, NONE of it is cost, if you charge $5 @ hour this is $5 @ hour profit $60 @ hour is ALL profit in a one man shop, you will find this out through taxes and your CPA. It is untrue to say "my job costs like: gas, truck, small tools...are in this rate," this is the most common statement yet look at the 3rd word in this statement. It is more accurate to say something like, "this is our shop rate" but with this you are not submitting your cost!
If you are a company with staff you have costs associated with company labor rate. If you pay a technician $25 you will have an additional 22% so this example the labor cost is $30.50 per hour minimum, and in this example at $60 @ hour shop rate the company made a gross profit of about $29.50 per hour. ALL time incurred to you is attributed to the service rendered, you should NEVER split tasks out like purchasing,?unless you pay this way but again if you stay out of the T&M world you won?t need to worry about this.
The equation is not as simple (nor is it accurate at all) as picking a rate and multiplying it annually, if you are a business you are responsible to choose accurately based on your demographics, if you don?t you will not exist into the future very far, luck does not exist long here only viability.
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
cooper: i don't see how you can complain about the cost of the car, the doc, or any of the other unreasonably priced services as you are also one of them if you are charging $400 per hour. That is what the questions are about.
You keep asserting that you are reasonable and yet I keep hearing little things that tell me that you are gouging.
If you are not, fine.
If you are, that's your business. But you asked a question and telling me to get real for thinking that $400 an hour is unreasonable smacks of a greedy arrogance, a what the market will bear, and tough luck to the customer. what goes around comes around as they used to say. if your lawyer finds out that you're charging that, do you think he will keep his rate at $150 to $200 an hour. naw three times your rate, same for the doc.
get real yourself. if you ask for opinions and only want the back slappers, you aren't really asking for opinions, just justifications to hide your greed from yourself. I didn't think you were greedy at first, but the more you justify, the more you sound like you think the whole works are owed to you. Have at it, it's your life. Glad it's not mine.
paul
cooper: i don't see how you can complain about the cost of the car, the doc, or any of the other unreasonably priced services as you are also one of them if you are charging $400 per hour. That is what the questions are about.
You keep asserting that you are reasonable and yet I keep hearing little things that tell me that you are gouging.
If you are not, fine.
If you are, that's your business. But you asked a question and telling me to get real for thinking that $400 an hour is unreasonable smacks of a greedy arrogance, a what the market will bear, and tough luck to the customer. what goes around comes around as they used to say. if your lawyer finds out that you're charging that, do you think he will keep his rate at $150 to $200 an hour. naw three times your rate, same for the doc.
get real yourself. if you ask for opinions and only want the back slappers, you aren't really asking for opinions, just justifications to hide your greed from yourself. I didn't think you were greedy at first, but the more you justify, the more you sound like you think the whole works are owed to you. Have at it, it's your life. Glad it's not mine.
paul
tryinghard
Senior Member
- Location
- California
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
apauling doesn?t understand business he does understand how to be adversarial though. I know a whole lot of insurance agents who actually make 250K annually, NET, and only work 1400 hours a year to get it but ALL the contractors I know make less than this, NET, and have to work more than 3000 hours a year. In fact many chimney sweeps, tree services, auto mechanics, plumbing contractors charge much more per hour. This is a fair price and nowhere near greed. You simply do not understand how a real business places values for risk and services.
You see it is easy to take offence to your unrealistic thoughts. I hope you are actually done being the devils advocate cause we?re sick of the mentality of what you think cost aught to be.
apauling doesn?t understand business he does understand how to be adversarial though. I know a whole lot of insurance agents who actually make 250K annually, NET, and only work 1400 hours a year to get it but ALL the contractors I know make less than this, NET, and have to work more than 3000 hours a year. In fact many chimney sweeps, tree services, auto mechanics, plumbing contractors charge much more per hour. This is a fair price and nowhere near greed. You simply do not understand how a real business places values for risk and services.
You see it is easy to take offence to your unrealistic thoughts. I hope you are actually done being the devils advocate cause we?re sick of the mentality of what you think cost aught to be.
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
I don't think he's gouging at all. From the very first post I believe it was said that this guy was cutting down a tree and it fell and took out the service. Sounds like this guy messed up, you took your extra time and came right over, also from the sounds of it you did an 8 hr job in a couple hours, good work on your part.
Why should you only get 2 hours of pay when the job normally takes more and you did it very professionally and all codes were met. I've had guys working for me that work at different paces. And they get paid the same for the same job.
Plus, no natural community wide disaster here. One guy made a goof. If he had contracted somebody to remove the tree, and they took out the service he would be able to force them to pay for it anyway.
Good work Cooper, and I will do all I can not to take out my service next time I cut down a tree.
I don't think he's gouging at all. From the very first post I believe it was said that this guy was cutting down a tree and it fell and took out the service. Sounds like this guy messed up, you took your extra time and came right over, also from the sounds of it you did an 8 hr job in a couple hours, good work on your part.
Why should you only get 2 hours of pay when the job normally takes more and you did it very professionally and all codes were met. I've had guys working for me that work at different paces. And they get paid the same for the same job.
Plus, no natural community wide disaster here. One guy made a goof. If he had contracted somebody to remove the tree, and they took out the service he would be able to force them to pay for it anyway.
Good work Cooper, and I will do all I can not to take out my service next time I cut down a tree.
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
Re: Second opinion: Emergency 100 Amp service lateral repair
- Status