Securing Type NM Cable

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

Bends are too sharp at the staples?

I don't like the color. The installer should have used pre-02 romex that was all white, the yellow is too 70's shag.

For Pete's sake. :roll:
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

Originally posted by jimwalker:
I showed this to my son who has about 2 years in the trade.He laughed.His first question was where is the protection.He also pointed out the 5th wire down on the beam.Is it cut or what ? looks like about 4 inches missing.Also some of the bends are too sharp at the staples.He found all this without me saying anything more than look at this picture.
Click to expand...
So Jim, if your son laughed at this installation, what would you or he consider good work? If this is not good enough for you, then what is? :roll:
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

Our inspecters are not complete yet ;)
He did say it looked great but asked why would anyone do this.But that's my fault for teaching him to try and make money at wiring.He now owns his own computer and data buisness so his romex days are over.If i was after only looks then i would hire this guy in a second.Curious as to how many days this took

[ October 29, 2005, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

So Jim, it's pretty much "like father like son".

You are envious of this persons ability and your 2 year helper son will follow your lead. :D

Roger
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

Almost everyone here could produce the same job.I said he did a fine job.Only questioning the cost factor.If someone paid him for all the time that took then they have more money than they know what to do with.If i wanted looks i would have it covered with drywall and painted.
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

Jim, the inspector who originally took the photos and submitted them to electrical-contractor.net said this installation is in a 7000 square foot house. I highly doubt cost is a factor, or even a remote concern for the owners of this house. He also said this contractor specializes in high-end homes, so he no doubt does this kind of work all the time, and knows how to price it accordingly.

Furthermore, do you think any EC with a brain is going to do work like this if he isn't getting paid for it? If this was a rush job, the outcome would not look anything close to what we see in those pics.

I don't understand how or why you would cover this kind of work in a basement. Maybe it's just a regional thing but this is common in many areas that have basements. :confused:

[ October 29, 2005, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

Jim
It would seem to me that the Florida is in such a bad way.
If an installer is used to doing an installation in a certain fashion, he becomes proficient at it. With that said, he knows all of the tricks and will complete an installation like this a lot faster than you may believe is possible.
This leads to another issue I see in our industry - installers who price work to get it, as opposed to making real money so as to perpetuate the kind of work that is going to elevate our industry back to where it should be.

Your response to some of the questions that have been asked (mere attempts at humour) show that you do not have an answer, such as where or why is there a need for protection from physical damage.
I know that some think that NM cable is not to ever be left exposed, I cannot see what is so dangerous here?????


What is the bending radius of NM cable - where does one take the measurement from?


This whole thread has actually uncovered a festering wound that exists in our industry, a wound that has been disguised by time management, pricing, lack of pride, cut throat policies, etc.. (I could really go on, but I would rather be positive) The culture is in need of a mass paridign shift, which I know will be a gargantuin task.
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

Jim you and I deal with many of the same inspectors on a day to day occurance,Yes as of yet they have not totally lost their minds ;)
I am sure that any of them inspecting an install such as the one posted would probably turn go back to the truck get their digital and take some pics to post in the office for others to see.
If the Ec has done this type of work for the GC on High ended homes before then I am sure the bid took into account the # of hours used to produce this type of quality work.This is something that tract bids have no place being compared to.
I looked and it was pretty hard to find much fault in the job.Securing within 12 in of the panel,maybe but without being there to measure that would be a hard call.Bending radius ??? Same reply as before.Not following building contour when mounted on blocking,well that is weak to say the least.
I have spent 1000`s of hours on high ended homes and to date the highest ended one was RJ Oconells palachio estate that sold for 8.5 million.32,000 sq ft a/c`d floor space and had all the bells and whistles 2 kitchens,olympic pool built in the home,30 seat theatre,14 bedrooms/14 jetted tubs elevator la da da da da.
The owner of my company was not interested in what is the profit margin,this was a pride thing to say we wired that place.To tell you the truth this was one of the finest jobs I have ever done in 32 years in this trade.800 amp CT service made it the largest service I have ever installed in a private home,so I can understand the pride this electrician took in wiring the panelboards we see.So Jim sometimes $$$ isn`t everything and I recieved praise when the owners of the company went to a banquet at this home held for Tampa builders assn.They were proud to say we did the job.
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

Allen ,yes they would get the cam out.But were we are the inspecter would say something like "thats a very nice looking job" "now find a way to protect it"
I gather from this post that it would not be required covered in many places.Here it will not pass till it is.Have yet to find anyone willing to say i want a perfect job at any price.Quality,fast,cheap.You cant have all 3
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

That is true Jim you can`t have all 3,just like you can`t satisfy everyone.I do agree there would be some inspectors that would say wow that`s awesome now cover it up so as to protect it.That is something I have never understood how a piece of 1/2 in gypsum drywall affords protection from physical damage.Now if they required plywood then I could go along but all drwall does is not let you see it.
It wasn`t long ago we were allowed to use a 2 in M/A at the top of the panel.Then it was use a nipple no longer than 24 ins and it can`t penetrate the ceiling member.Then it was use connectors and secure within 12 ins. of the panel.Then the listing of connectors came into play # of cables allowed in each connector.Just wondering what`s next ;) Maybe back to the M/A in the next cycle change ??? it seems the only constant is change.Look at grounded yokes on switches required then not then required then not, now required again.
I first pulled rope (who remembers that terminoligy) in the late 70`s then we were allowed to staple on vertical furring ,then nope can`t do that and we took sheathing and made a bridge between furring entrapping nm in the middle then oh no can`t do that so it was wire along block walls and nail plate the bottom of the furring.Then in some areas it was ok to staple along the top of the pt base as long as it was a 1X4 now in some ares it is ok and across the street in another jurisdiction it is not.Even now some areas here allow direct stapling on the top of a 1X4 base with no protection.I just wish there was a standardized rule state wide.There was supposed to bea uniformed building code that prevented this but that was swept into some obscure crack in the floor.
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

Allen to admit i been thru all that would make me look old ;) I stopped fighting them.Just tell me the rules so i can just get the job done.
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

Originally posted by jimwalker:
But were we are the inspecter would say something like "thats a very nice looking job" "now find a way to protect it"
Click to expand...
Protect it from what mister inspector? :p

[ October 30, 2005, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

Isn`t that the truth :D Maybe to blow some of the stupidity we have to deal with on a day to day basis.It does get frustrating when in one county there are two side east and west that have different requirements.Grounding is a oiece of work here.East side Cu encased in the slab only ,West that way or still use a ufer stub.Some say in a wall in the garage with a pring and some say in the exterior of the slab.
The saddest part is the electrical inspectors do not sign the footer ufer off the slab inspector does.So what ever is there either uffer steel CU in the slab is ok with them as long as there is one of these they sign away.They have no knowledge of the NEC in any way shape or form but they are allowed to sign it off.So tell me what`s screwed up with that picture ???
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

Yeah I know what you mean I used to be at the mercy of inspectors blowing with the wind to and fro until one day I grabbed my code book and asked the man "why do you say I can't do this" and we discussed it and while I may have lost the battle I hoped someday I would win the war I mean after all to bounce from job to job city to city not being able to get anything done for all the red tags and inspectors throwing stupid things at us :) In one town they finally realized you can't staple 12-2 to the bottom of the floor joists in a basement and I thought that was wildly unfair to change horses mid river :eek: and then there was the whole lawsuit thing thats a different story all together and the tattoo parlor those guys were nice if a little scary looking nothing like an inspector who is not all that friendly and hardly ever has a neat tattoo :eek:
 
Re: Securing Type NM Cable

laughabove.gif
laughabove.gif
laughabove.gif


George, that's one of the funniest things I've ever read. And the pun is pretty darned good too.

[ October 30, 2005, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: peter d ]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top