Security Camera with Audio

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mkgrady

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Massachusetts
I have a customer that wants a video recording camera system. I have installed a few but this customer wants to also record audio. I don't even know what additional hardware or wiring that would entail. I assume it's not a big deal. My question is about the legality of recording audio. This customer lives in a crowded neighborhood near the street. So everybody that walks past her house would be recorded both audio and video.

Is the audio recording legal? I'm in Massachusetts. When I do web searches it seems to be only prohibitting the recording of phone calls. Of course half the people walking by are talking on their cell phones, but I don't think the law is addressing that kind of phone conversation recording.
 
Its only illegal to record audio or video when there is a reasonable expectation of privacy. Walking down the street is fair game. You should be able to find an IP based system and do audio and video over a cat5e/cat6.
 
arcsnsparks98 said:
Its only illegal to record audio or video when there is a reasonable expectation of privacy. Walking down the street is fair game. You should be able to find an IP based system and do audio and video over a cat5e/cat6.
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She is so close to her neighbors she will be recording next door neighbors conversations while they are on their front porch or hanging out in the front yard. For that matter if the neighbors windows are open some of the louder indoor conversations will be recorded.
 
Might make for an awkward relationship with the neighbors if they become aware but far from illegal. Front porch is a very public place. Drink a beer on your front porch in a state that has a law against open containers in public. The police make it clear just how public it is. :)
 
arcsnsparks98 said:
Might make for an awkward relationship with the neighbors if they become aware but far from illegal. Front porch is a very public place. Drink a beer on your front porch in a state that has a law against open containers in public. The police make it clear just how public it is. :)
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She already hates these neighbors so no damage to relationship. I assume she hopes to catch them doing something illegal.
 
Curious nerd said:
http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/massachusetts-recording-law Other places with similar laws, http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/us/23cnceavesdropping.html?pagewanted=all Do not try to figure this out yourself, though. The answer may depend on case law that it would take a legal researcher to find. This is a job for a lawyer. One good question to ask the lawyer would be whether a sign saying "Audio recording in progress" is adequate protection.
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I don't see where the legality lies on the OP's shoulders. It would be on the home owner. He is not being ask to knowingly violate any electrical codes. I can hire a mechanic to install a new intake for 2, four barrel carburetors. It's up to me to know that its not legal to go from 0 to 90 in 4.2 sec. on main street.
 
ceb58 said:
I don't see where the legality lies on the OP's shoulders. It would be on the home owner. He is not being ask to knowingly violate any electrical codes. I can hire a mechanic to install a new intake for 2, four barrel carburetors. It's up to me to know that its not legal to go from 0 to 90 in 4.2 sec. on main street.
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I don't see that as the same thing at all.
 
iwire said:
Do you have a Mass. 'S' license for doing security work?
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Bob don't you mean the $ license? ;)

You cannot really do audio in MA without two party consent. Having audio admissible is even more of a challenge. I you are doing surveillance work you would feel a lot better with Kirschenbaum contract, still doesn't keep you out of trouble for doing something illegal of course.
 
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ceb58 said:
I don't see where the legality lies on the OP's shoulders. It would be on the home owner. He is not being ask to knowingly violate any electrical codes. I can hire a mechanic to install a new intake for 2, four barrel carburetors. It's up to me to know that its not legal to go from 0 to 90 in 4.2 sec. on main street.
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In princible I agree, but if this is a high end neighbor dispute and lawyers get involved he may get sued. When this type of scenario comes up I just spell out in the contract exactly what we are providing, such as we will focus a camera on X but will block out any areas that could have an expectation of privacy. Like into a window.

If a changing room is in a store, I specifically state we will not allow any view of such space. We had one store that wanted a camera pointed at the changing room entrance. (not in the room but towards it, we wont do that) My tech ended up with the owner agreeing to have the camera to the side of the door at no time could you see the camera from inside that room.
 
iwire said:
Do you have a Mass. 'S' license for doing security work?
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Yes sort of. I'm glad you asked. I just checked and found it expired last month. Now I need to renew it. Hopefully that process doesn't take very long.

This is my first renewal of the s license. It appears I just submit my application with three letters of reference. Like that will prove I am an honest person. I think the fee is all the state cares about.
 
ceb58 said:
I don't see where the legality lies on the OP's shoulders. It would be on the home owner. He is not being ask to knowingly violate any electrical codes. I can hire a mechanic to install a new intake for 2, four barrel carburetors. It's up to me to know that its not legal to go from 0 to 90 in 4.2 sec. on main street.
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iwire said:
I don't see that as the same thing at all.
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I agree it is not the same thing, there are some similarities though.

It is normally going to be illegal to go from 0-90 in pretty much any time period on main street, but may not be somewhere else like a racetrack.

A more similar analogy would be selling beer to a minor, typically illegal no matter what the specific circumstances are.

I don't know if the OP could be held liable for illegal use of something installed or not, I really think it would come down to having an attorney being able to convince a judge or jury that it was illegal to do so.

Can one get in trouble just for selling the audio equipment - chance is not that great, actually installing it in a questionable location makes it a higher risk. You may want documentation for what you did and anything you may have done to prevent collecting specific audio from specific sources. Kind of like how nhfire77 mentioned placing the camera where it can not 'see' inside the dressing room, though that was video and not audio and would have different challenges.

Though a microphone just on one person's porch that happens to catch what sounds come from elsewhere is probably generally acceptable, but the use of some high tech device designed to pick up sounds that wouldn't normally be audible from a specific location starts to raise some questions of privacy and intent of the device.
 
To me it is more like the difference between selling beer to a minor (always bad) versus selling beer to someone who might give it to a minor (not bad) versus selling beer to someone you know is just fronting for a minor (probably bad.)
 
nhfire77 said:
Bob don't you mean the $ license? ;)

You cannot really do audio in MA without two party consent. Having audio admissible is even more of a challenge. I you are doing surveillance work you would feel a lot better with Kirschenbaum contract, still doesn't keep you out of trouble for doing something illegal of course.
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I was going to suggest looking at Ken's website. I get his daily newsletter, and this issue has been raised a number of times. IIRC, in no case, posted or not is it wise to record audio along with video. You can run afoul of Peeping Tom laws in several states.
 
gadfly56 said:
I was going to suggest looking at Ken's website. I get his daily newsletter, and this issue has been raised a number of times. IIRC, in no case, posted or not is it wise to record audio along with video. You can run afoul of Peeping Tom laws in several states.
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Kens website???
 
I suggest she get a Dropcam and leave you out of it. It's a wireless cloud-based camera. Requires just a receptacle, and wifi. It will send alerts when it sees motion. You can see and hear live video right from your phone.
https://www.dropcam.com/
 
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